[iowagold]

Thanks, Paul.

6 is what I thought, too, but I will have an electrician confirm. Looking at the tables it looks like it is rated for 60 amps in the 90 degree column, and that should be safe for the 50 amp transfer switch/subpanel.

As for circuits, yes, there are only the 4 on the panel, and I agree that this seems light. However, the main purpose of this installation was to keep the various pumps working, and I'm sure they were thinking about the overall surge draw. There are two 1/3 HP sump pumps, one 1 HP grinder, a few pot lights in the hall, and two outlets in the kitchen. From what I have found in various calculators here is a rough estimate of what I think the load will look like including what I want to add (fridge, freezer, well pump):

View attachment 10851

Without those items, it looks like our current run load is 4840w, and surge is 7040w (assuming that all are running at the same time), which is likely why they stopped there. So, that's why I was wanting to determine if the wiring and transfer switch could support more if I were to get a bigger generator. This is also what sent me down the path of looking at inverters, as they have so much more surge capacity to accommodate these high inductive loads, and that would leave me the ability to add more things without exceeding the run capacity of the inverter.

Thanks again.

Shaun

you might look at upgrade on the system in the future to load shed....
or voting...
that way you could get more out the of the gen set...
maybe use ups units for lights that would charge the batteries when you extra power available.
same for tv, internet and more...

 

[iowagold]

looks like 6 gauge.
hard to tell with out an reference as the red wire insulation could be thick.

50amp... on the interlock panel...
so is this a sub panel and only supplies power to the
4 breakers?
one 15 amp
three 20 amp
looks to be room to expand on that part..

 

[iowagold]

Thanks, Paul.

The 2 sump pumps we are using are from Liberty, and the specs indicate 5.2 amps at full load. I don't know what the effluent pump is, unfortunately.

We do have one bladder tank inside with about 60 gallons, and it does keep us going for some time if we are careful. Hadn't considered additional tanks, though. Do they require any maintenance to deal with stagnation if the well pump is working fine for a long time?

Cheers,
Shaun

run the tanks after the water treatment then you never have to deal with water quality issues.
and make sure to have check valves on each inlet for each tank.
we set the bladder pressure to the 50-60 psi we need for the water system.
and run gauges in 3 places so we can see at a glance where we are on pressure.
pump
after the water treatment
and after the bladder tanks.
and a secondary pressure regulator after the bladder tanks as a safety for the house system.

 

[iowagold]

I got thinking about the UPS issues a bit more, and realized that it was sharing an extension cord with one of the pumps, which quite likely contributed to the problem. I'm thinking that next time I'll try to have the two pumps share a heavy duty cord, and use a separate one for the UPS. Might make a difference.

Thanks, all.

Shaun

oops there ya go!
yea go ultra HD on any cords is a real good plan.

 

[iowagold]

Thanks, iowagold. Lots to think about in your post.

It's good to know that the UPS switching is normal, although didn't happen with the Generac unit previously. Apparently, that must have provided cleaner power.

Note that the well pump is not currently on the generator; just the two 1/3hp sump pumps and an effluent pump that rarely runs. Honestly, I don't know the depth of this well, and have been meaning to check. However, it does have a 1hp control box on it.

I'll definitely give thought to potential solutions for water. Again, thanks for that.

Cheers,
Shaun

if you have a good current meter or the oem manuals for the pump or the exact make and models of the pumps we can look up the specs.

yea the extra bladder tanks with good one way check valves are a real good easy up grade for a well system.
it is like a ups for the water system....
extra reserve water for when the pump power is off.....
i had thought about doing a network of tanks here for city water as well..
that way when the water is down i can shut off the main and work off the stored water.

quality clean water is one of the things you have to have for survival....
and needs its own section for sure.

 

[iowagold]

THA

Thanks, folks. I continue to learn more from this forum each day, and after two more extended power outages today, I need all the help I can get! This has been the worst year by far in the 5 years we have lived here.

The good news is that the Firman generator has operated well, today, and has kept the important things running (using extension cords -- not going through the transfer switch). The only fly in the ointment is that the UPS I have supporting all my key electronics (cable modem, router, etc.), wasn't really happy with the power it was supplying. On a fairly regular basis, it would switch over to battery in order to filter out things it didn't like. The UPS showed power ranging from 120v, to 121v, 122v, back to 120v, etc. I was too occupied to look at this closely, but this might have aligned to when heavy loads (pumps) were switching. So, I guess I learned today that an inverter generator is probably desirable for clean power to the house! What I don't know is if the UPS (APC 1500vA) is fully filtering out the bad effects of the power, or if I really need to not connect anything electronic for now. FWIW, we didn't see this behavior with the Generac unit.

To answer a few questions, the Firman generator currently sits out front of the house, which provides the most direct path for running extension cords to critical items. The long-term home for it will be at the back of the house, which is where the current (failed) Generac unit is located. The ATS is located in the garage near the front of the house, with all the cabling running to the back in conduit (behind finished walls) where the generator is.

As for wiring for the old generator, yes, I do plan to complete disconnect the control wiring until we get to the point of using it on the new setup. Thanks for bringing up the concern about the gauge of wire for the 240V feed from the generator. I'll have a look at it to determine the gauge before doing anything else. I had really just assumed that the load was going to be the same on the new generator as the old, but it's absolutely better to be sure.

Speaking of the new step, I'll be right back with another post to outline what I'm planning.

Cheers,
Shaun

the switching in and out on the ups units is the norm when loads are cutting in and out on the gen set.
you might look in to easy start or motor drive like they use on air con units and industrial stuff.
those help with the in rush issues.
you might look in to the back up pumps they use for sump pumps that work off 12 volts dc
you might be able to use a aux water tank for when the power is out.
or get 2 more bladder tanks to make 150 gallons reserve water at pressure.
they sure help to even out the pump runs.
well pumps are tricky at best and need a LARGE gen set to run them right...
you might even look in to a dedicated gen just for the well pump....
it could be done with an demand ats system that would only kick in the gen for the well pump when you are low on water pressure.
question how deep is the well???
they make gas powered jet pumps...
just a thought... with large bladder tanks it maybe an option.

 

[iowagold]

great questions!
it all depends on the call for gen start.
if it is digital on a wifi or lan connection from the ats then you might be stuck doing some hard core design to get past the digital full auto.

see if you can find the wiring diagrams for both the ats and the gen.
if it is all relay controlled you should be able to adapt the new gen set to the current ats system.

you will need an electric gas valve for the new gen set.
as well as an inlet cord and inlet socket.

you will have to watch the load close...
and use a 50 amp inlet.
if the new gen is rated for a real 8000 watt run you are close to the old gen power by the math.