[drmerdp]

By the looks of that transfer panel you can manually transfer the circuits to generator power like an interlock. No need to rely on it automatically switching.

Flip the utility breaker to off and the generator breaker to on. Done.

If automatic Operation only requires the L1,L2,N, and G to be connected to a power source then that’s a home run.

Can you snap a pic of what’s under that panel cover?

 

[drmerdp]

I’ve been digging through the manuals you posted. This was the perfect motivation to fill some of my knowledge gaps on standby generators.

The transfer panel cannot be automatically triggered by the firmans power output. The generac generators control module supply’s 12v and selectively a ground on the 3 communication wires running from the transfer panel to the enclosure. If you remove the lower black trim panel on the enclosures electrical panel you’ll see the connector block with terminals 194 23 and 0 on it.

As for the connector you bought, that’s a 120v 30amp plug and is not appropriate for what you want to do. You’ll need a 50 amp inlet box to wire to the red, black, white, and heavy gauge bare ground wire. Then a cord that will connect from the inlet box to the 14-50 receptacle on your firman.

 

[drmerdp]

If I were to leave the control wires disconnected, could I then use the transfer switch manually in order to switch between line and generator power?

Yes, you will be able to operate the panel manually. The smaller gauge communication wires can be disregarded and the heavy gauge wires can be used for the new inlet box.

What really appeals to me, at the moment, is to pick up a nice, reliable Honda generator, and find a way to make it work with the current ATS, or get a compatible ATS.

It may be possible to interface with the generac ATS you have. Maybe with something like the GSCM-mini or something similar. I’ve pondered ways to have a few critical circuits on a auto-transfer panel and have the eu7000 auto start. I have a plan, but I’m unsure if it’ll ultimately be code compliant since the auto transfer switch I’d use is more geared toward solar and RV usage.

Still, there are pitfalls there, too, as Honda doesn't offer propane as a solution for long runtime, so I'd have to go aftermarket, which would void the warranty. Naturally, I'd also need to look at a secure enclosure to protect it from weather and thieves, but that would be the case with any portable generator.

The warranty period is only 3 years, you can wait it out or just take the leap. I converted mine right off the bat, haven’t needed to bring it back for any warranty work.

 

[drmerdp]

I imagine the power wiring from your generator to the transfer switch is sized to the 7kw generator, so that's something.

I'd think you'd want to make sure the current generator is totally out of the mix, so I think I'd disconnect all electrical connections from the transfer switch, in preparation to operate it manually.

Where's the Firman sit when it's in operation, and where's the transfer switch, inside or outside?

I mean, you could drill a hole in the existing gen's enclosure and mount the inlet box, if you could conveniently wheel the portable in the vicinity.

I'm fuzzy on all this stuff, but the transfer switch has a 50 amp breaker, but the nameplate say 29.2a at 240v. So, I wonder if you might be okay with a 30amp 240v. twist lock inlet. The Firman's 30 amp plug would have a breaker on it too, right? Things would be cheaper.

The wire terminating at the generators enclosure just by looking at it is at least 8awg If not 6awg. He will need to look closer to confirm. It’s possible to use 8 gauge wire as long as the conduit, wire, and terminations are rated for the 90 degree column. For example the reliance 50amp inlet has 90 degree column rated terminals… I personally would never suggest using less then 6gauge wire for a 50amp inlet but it’s technically OK as long as all the boxes are checked. If any of the comments are only listed for 75 or 60 degree column then 6 gauge is the minimum sized conductor for 50 amps.

 

[drmerdp]

It not surprising that the UPS would switch with a momentary dip in voltage. Electric pumps have alot of startup demand and it can cause a momentary voltage dip which then cause the UPS to switch to battery momentarily. Better quality alternators will handle surge loads with less issue.

 

[drmerdp]

I got thinking about the UPS issues a bit more, and realized that it was sharing an extension cord with one of the pumps, which quite likely contributed to the problem. I'm thinking that next time I'll try to have the two pumps share a heavy duty cord, and use a separate one for the UPS. Might make a difference.

Thanks, all.

Shaun

Worth a shot. Never hurts to have a 12 gauge. Shotgun or extension cord.

 

[drmerdp]

Looks like 6awg hard to say though. I’m surprised with a 7000watt generator only 4 spaces were filled.

An inverter charger and battery bank is a very expensive solution for a sump pump. It obviously can be used for lots of other electrical needs as well. It’s neat how they can bypass the battery and supply grid or generator power when availible. But if the sump pump is the main or only concern a 12v battery backup pump kit is fairly inexpensive.

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www.sumppumpsdirect.com

 

[drmerdp]

With regard to battery backup sump pumps, I actually have one of those here, but have not installed it due to practical issues. The sump pits are relatively narrow, and there just doesn't seem to be a good way to add the backup pump in without possibly getting in the way of the primary pump. Then, there are all the horror stories I have heard about 12V pump issues, including reduced capacity, unreliability, never-ending, piercing alarm tones, etc. Maybe these are not the issues that I worry they are, but they don't leave me with a real sense of confidence.

I have no idea what kind of water table you are dealing or how critical the pumps are for wet weather. Yeah battery backup units are low GPH but for most situations, are the difference between a wet or dry basement.

The battery backup pumps usually have a much smaller footprint then typical sump Pumps. Also they usually get installed higher in the pit supported by the PVC discharge pipe and clear of the primary pump. If the amount of water entering the pit overwhelms the primary pump the battery pump joins the fun.

Im all for an elaborate battery bank inverter system, but if you already own a battery backup setup, might as well put it to good use. Just saying.

 

[drmerdp]

You're absolutely right, of course. I do already have one of these, and taking a look at it more closely, it should be possible to install it in one of my sump pits. That will provide a final layer of protection should all else fail, and I'm always a fan of that. Looking at my power plan, I'm at 5 layers now, as follows:

1. Grid
2. All-in-One inverter/battery bank
3. On-Demand generator charging of battery bank
4. Inverter bypass via manual transfer switch to allow direct generator support of critical loads
5. Battery-Operated backup sump pump

I think that should do it.

Thanks again.

Shaun

It’s going to be a heck of a setup. 👍

For your exhaust fan 16” should be sufficient depending on your summer temps.

For the intake, I used a motorized intake shutter. It’s a very clean and effective solution but pricy. The intake you have listed should install without issue, though it will encroach into the interior space a bit.

Insulation, the foil faced foam to linked to, will work, it carries a firing rating and will reduce heat soak in the enclosure with some sound attenuation. I used a peel and stick foil faced foam similar to this.

https://www.amazon.ca/LINGDA-Insulation-Dampening-Moistureproof-Waterproof/dp/B074SXM4Q9/ref=dp_fod_1?pd_rd_i=B074SXM4Q9&psc=1

 

[drmerdp]

Yes, maybe overkill, but worth the peace of mind, particularly for my wife!

Thanks for the info on the shutters. I'll have a look at motorized intake shutters, and see what is out there. Question for you: Do you do anything to delay closing the shutters on generator shutdown? I would imagine that there is still quite a bit of heat there when the shutdown occurs, and the lack of airflow might make temperature increase substantially.

As for the insulation, the peel and stick would certainly be a lot easier to install, and would not require the use of fasteners, which tend to transfer heat past the barrier. I'll have to give that some thought. Have you noticed any tendency for the insulation to de-laminate over time?

Thanks again -- really appreciate your help.

Shaun

Honestly no real concerns with temp rise after shutting down. The enclosure isnt airtight even with the shutters

The foil is holding up well and has no signs delaminating.

For your inlet box it by code needs to be a male receptacle. The “California standard” CSxxxx range of 50amp plugs and receptacles are the most common and more appropriate option.