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At 29 volts it puts out 14.5 amps. Is that to fast to charge.
That is a safe range for the large batteries as long as the current starts to drop as the batteries start to become more charged, these are 100AH batteries, correct?
Now on to the next step.

Let the generator charge the batteries for a period of time with the caps removed so you can see if they start to bubble. Also check that the batteries do not get hot.
Make sure each cell in the batteries has the correct level of water in them. Use only distilled water to top off the level if low.

Considering the condition of the batteries and the state of charge, it may take a long while for the state of charge to come up to a point the current reading should start to drop. That is what we want to see here. The current going down.
You may even see the voltage from the generator come up a little, that is ok.

If the batteries start to get hot or boil excessively, STOP.
You want to see something like this:
Charge.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #82
That is a safe range for the large batteries as long as the current starts to drop as the batteries start to become more charged, these are 100AH batteries, correct?
Now on to the next step.

Let the generator charge the batteries for a period of time with the caps removed so you can see if they start to bubble. Also check that the batteries do not get hot.
Make sure each cell in the batteries has the correct level of water in them. Use only distilled water to top off the level if low.

Considering the condition of the batteries and the state of charge, it may take a long while for the state of charge to come up to a point the current reading should start to drop. That is what we want to see here. The current going down.
You may even see the voltage from the generator come up a little, that is ok.

If the batteries start to get hot or boil excessively, STOP.
You want to see something like this:
View attachment 8833
Sorry it didn't give me a notification that you had replied. I will try running it for awhile when I get home tonight. But in the mean time. I have another question last night I was cleaning up and I came across a old 20amp PWM from my old cottage. It does both 12 and 24 volts. In the worse case scenio (test tonight doesn't work) could I use this to control the charge. Just turn the idle up till it puts out about 29v. I know PWMs are not as efficient as MPPT but spring is coming. And I need something before I launch my boat for the summer. Also the company I bought it from still owes me $125 they agreed to pay because it was the wrong model. So I'm seeing if they will send an replacement controller instead. Even if that's not the problem it would be good to have a second one. I do wish the electric start would work. Thanks Again
 

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Sorry it didn't give me a notification that you had replied. I will try running it for awhile when I get home tonight. But in the mean time. I have another question last night I was cleaning up and I came across a old 20amp PWM from my old cottage. It does both 12 and 24 volts. In the worse case scenio (test tonight doesn't work) could I use this to control the charge. Just turn the idle up till it puts out about 29v. I know PWMs are not as efficient as MPPT but spring is coming. And I need something before I launch my boat for the summer. Also the company I bought it from still owes me $125 they agreed to pay because it was the wrong model. So I'm seeing if they will send an replacement controller instead. Even if that's not the problem it would be good to have a second one. I do wish the electric start would work. Thanks Again
Can you give the brand and model# so I can look up the specs?

Which company owes you? The one you purchased your range extender from, or the one you purchased your PWM from?
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Can you give the brand and model# so I can look up the specs?

Which company owes you? The one you purchased your range extender from, or the one you purchased your PWM from?
Ok its running right now I'll let you know more when it runs for awhile.

As for who owes me money. The original company that sent the range extender to me. We had worked out I guess you can call it a settlement since they sent me the wrong one and I didn't want to pay to ship it back and forth to China. But then they said they can only pay me via Wechat. Which I had never heard of but I looked up and apparently its monstrous in China and the most common way they transfer money. But the problem is in order to get a financial Wechat account you need a Chinese bank account. They said they had never heard of Paypal or Email transfers etc. It was quite frustrating. To be honest I was wondering if they were just trying to find ways not to pay me. Anyways I sent them a message to ask for the replacement controller instead but they have 48 hours to reply to me.

Yes the batteries are 105 a/h.
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Ok its running right now I'll let you know more when it runs for awhile.

As for who owes me money. The original company that sent the range extender to me. We had worked out I guess you can call it a settlement since they sent me the wrong one and I didn't want to pay to ship it back and forth to China. But then they said they can only pay me via Wechat. Which I had never heard of but I looked up and apparently its monstrous in China and the most common way they transfer money. But the problem is in order to get a financial Wechat account you need a Chinese bank account. They said they had never heard of Paypal or Email transfers etc. It was quite frustrating. To be honest I was wondering if they were just trying to find ways not to pay me. Anyways I sent them a message to ask for the replacement controller instead but they have 48 hours to reply to me.

Yes the batteries are 105 a/h.
Oh yeah I cant find a model number on the PWM but its says CMG on the case. I tried to open it up but its sealed behind the heatsink. I found this online it looks identical.
 

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Ok its running right now I'll let you know more when it runs for awhile.

As for who owes me money. The original company that sent the range extender to me. We had worked out I guess you can call it a settlement since they sent me the wrong one and I didn't want to pay to ship it back and forth to China. But then they said they can only pay me via Wechat. Which I had never heard of but I looked up and apparently its monstrous in China and the most common way they transfer money. But the problem is in order to get a financial Wechat account you need a Chinese bank account. They said they had never heard of Paypal or Email transfers etc. It was quite frustrating. To be honest I was wondering if they were just trying to find ways not to pay me. Anyways I sent them a message to ask for the replacement controller instead but they have 48 hours to reply to me.

Yes the batteries are 105 a/h.
I would try and have them send you another controller then. Can't hurt.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Here is the owners manual:
Sorry I wasn't able to finish my test last night I had to go get a car out of the ditch. But I did this morning. After running for over a hour the battery just got warm (no boiling). My levels are good. Also after a hour it hadn't reduced the voltage or power it was producing. Thanks for the manual but am I reading it right even if I put 24v 20a into it all it will charge is 12v 2a. Or are they just talking about if I attach a load to it's load output. Thank you again for all the time your taking with me.
If they do send me a new controller it will take a minimum of 6 weeks to get here ugh
 

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Sorry I wasn't able to finish my test last night I had to go get a car out of the ditch. But I did this morning. After running for over a hour the battery just got warm (no boiling). My levels are good. Also after a hour it hadn't reduced the voltage or power it was producing. Thanks for the manual but am I reading it right even if I put 24v 20a into it all it will charge is 12v 2a. Or are they just talking about if I attach a load to it's load output. Thank you again for all the time your taking with me.
If they do send me a new controller it will take a minimum of 6 weeks to get here ugh
Sorry about getting the car stuck, I hate winter!
Your CMG-2420 will provide 20 Amps max charge current for your 24V battery bank as long as you are providing 20 Amps from your range extender.
The 12V 2 amp output is only related to the load output terminals 5 and 6.

Never exceed 40V input voltage, and try to hold the max input amps to no more than 21 to 22 amps.
You need to protect both the input side and output side of the CMG controller with fuses in the positive wires. I would put a 25 amp fuse between the rectifier and the CMG-2420, and a 20 amp fuse between the CMG-2420 an the batteries. Install the fuses the Positive wires.
You can get fuses and fuse holders at any auto parts store. The fuse holders should be rated for at least 30 amps and a minimum of 14 AWG

I would say it's worth a try to use the CMG-2420 as a test since you already have it.
The CMG should lower the output voltage and current as the batteries become charged.
Like this -
charged.jpg

Always have the CMG turned on before starting the range extender.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
By the way, what is the resting voltage of your batteries now, before starting anymore charge testing?
After sitting for over 24 hours in below freezing the voltage on the batteries was at 23.7v.
Ok so using the CMG I can control the charge so it doesn't overcharge, if I set range extender to run at about 29-40v. (no more than 20a). Thats great now I can charge my batteries using it. Now if I could just get the electric start to work. Still wish there was a way to run the Electric motors directly off of it. But I would have to run it at nearly full throttle to get the amperage but that would be way to much voltage. I'd need a way to reduce the voltage to around 24v while running at nearly full throttle.
 

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After sitting for over 24 hours in below freezing the voltage on the batteries was at 23.7v.
Ok so using the CMG I can control the charge so it doesn't overcharge, if I set range extender to run at about 29-40v. (no more than 20a). Thats great now I can charge my batteries using it. Now if I could just get the electric start to work. Still wish there was a way to run the Electric motors directly off of it. But I would have to run it at nearly full throttle to get the amperage but that would be way to much voltage. I'd need a way to reduce the voltage to around 24v while running at nearly full throttle.
23.7v is only about 37% charged. That was after charging for how long?
It may take four hours or more to bring them up to a full charge.
I hate to help you spend your hard earned cash but you need another tool here. don't buy the cheap ones with the swing style indicators. These will tell you the state of charge and the condition of the individual cells.
Buy a good one like this:
Amazon.com: OTC 4619 Professional Battery Hydrometer: Automotive

One thing to note, if the batteries are badly sulfated, a battery charger may not ever get to a point that the charge current will start tapering down.

It looks like your batteries may be badly sulfated from being over-discharged for a long period of time - weeks or months maybe. Or due to not fully charging as soon as possible after using them.
I think you need to set up the CMG and do some testing before getting too excited.

You stated that your boat motors are 2000 watts each, 4000 watts total. That is 166 amps at 24 volts.
Do you ever run them wide open and if so, for how long?
What are the brand and model of these motors?

Let's test that CMG charger now.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
23.7v is only about 37% charged. That was after charging for how long?
It may take four hours or more to bring them up to a full charge.
I hate to help you spend your hard earned cash but you need another tool here. don't buy the cheap ones with the swing style indicators. These will tell you the state of charge and the condition of the individual cells.
Buy a good one like this:
Amazon.com: OTC 4619 Professional Battery Hydrometer: Automotive

One thing to note, if the batteries are badly sulfated, a battery charger may not ever get to a point that the charge current will start tapering down.

It looks like your batteries may be badly sulfated from being over-discharged for a long period of time - weeks or months maybe. Or due to not fully charging as soon as possible after using them.
I think you need to set up the CMG and do some testing before getting too excited.

You stated that your boat motors are 2000 watts each, 4000 watts total. That is 166 amps at 24 volts.
Do you ever run them wide open and if so, for how long?
What are the brand and model of these motors?

Let's test that CMG charger now.
I will go buy a Hydrometer and Fuse holders later today. Covid restrictions have lightened up. Stores are open again :) Also I will go out and find the name and model of the motors after it quits snowing. I admit that's going to be a big job the motors themselves are under winter shrink wrapping. I'll have to cut it. I can get into the cockpit but the motors are at the back where its tight. But I'll do it. I remember its a Chinese name lol. I did find a bit of info I was wrong about the wattage they are 1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts. I had written it down and I just found the piece of paper.

It depends where I am what I run them at. When I'm on the Ottawa river which is a big wide river I run full out, there is also a lake I go to a lot that I run full out (the lake doesn't allow gas motors). The motors are not very powerful together at full power I get 8 knots. I also spend about 50% of my time on the Rideau Waterway which is a 202km heritage canal and waterway. The speed limit there is just 5 knots so I run one motor at about 50% power. My limit of travel has always been what my batteries can hold. But I would like to travel a lot further. The Rideau Waterway connects to the American inland waterways and the ocean, not that I would ever go that far in this boat but I would like to travel further than my batteries will allow.

Thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter #94
I will go buy a Hydrometer and Fuse holders later today. Covid restrictions have lightened up. Stores are open again :) Also I will go out and find the name and model of the motors after it quits snowing. I admit that's going to be a big job the motors themselves are under winter shrink wrapping. I'll have to cut it. I can get into the cockpit but the motors are at the back where its tight. But I'll do it. I remember its a Chinese name lol. I did find a bit of info I was wrong about the wattage they are 1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts. I had written it down and I just found the piece of paper.

It depends where I am what I run them at. When I'm on the Ottawa river which is a big wide river I run full out, there is also a lake I go to a lot that I run full out (the lake doesn't allow gas motors). The motors are not very powerful together at full power I get 8 knots. I also spend about 50% of my time on the Rideau Waterway which is a 202km heritage canal and waterway. The speed limit there is just 5 knots so I run one motor at about 50% power. My limit of travel has always been what my batteries can hold. But I would like to travel a lot further. The Rideau Waterway connects to the American inland waterways and the ocean, not that I would ever go that far in this boat but I would like to travel further than my batteries will allow.

Thanks again
Quick question: what voltage should the batteries be at when full? And what is the highest voltage I can safely charge at?

Thanks Again
 

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Quick question: what voltage should the batteries be at when full? And what is the highest voltage I can safely charge at?

Thanks Again
Don't rip your winter shrink wrapping off for the motor info, I was just curious.
Here are a couple of charts for you.
Max charge voltage should be 29.4V.
Full charge should be over 25V after a rest period after charging.
SOC.jpg

Chg.jpg
 

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Paul, you stated your motors are "1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts." Is this each motor, or the total wattage for both motors together?
It sounds like you have some beautiful areas for fishing up there.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Paul, you stated your motors are "1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts." Is this each motor, or the total wattage for both motors together?
It sounds like you have some beautiful areas for fishing up there.
It's for each individual motor. I may have to wait till tomorrow to go get that stuff it's turned into a blizzard out there.

We might have crappy winters but we do have great scenery and great fishing. I practically live on the water during the shirt summer. Last year there was a thin layer of ice on the water before I took my boat out for the winter. How about in west Virginia? Oh yeah I was wrong I have been to WV. A million years ago in college I went to Morgantown to see a transit system they had at the University.
 

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It's for each individual motor. I may have to wait till tomorrow to go get that stuff it's turned into a blizzard out there.

We might have crappy winters but we do have great scenery and great fishing. I practically live on the water during the shirt summer. Last year there was a thin layer of ice on the water before I took my boat out for the winter. How about in west Virginia? Oh yeah I was wrong I have been to WV. A million years ago in college I went to Morgantown to see a transit system they had at the University.
Morgantown, that is a very scenic city. How's the blizzard doing?
I've been reading up on MPPT and PWM charge controllers the last two days as it's been raining here the last two days, so nothing better to do.
I've come to the conclusion that the basic ones may not be the best choice.
There are some MPPT charge controllers that can be setup for windmill and water turbine generators. I'll do more research over the next few days.
The issue with the basic charge controllers listed above is that once the batteries become close the being fully charged, these chargers actually start disconnecting and the input voltage to taper off the current and voltage. Basically they are turning off and on hundreds of times a second.
This would not be good for the controller for your range extender as it must always be connected to the batteries while the range extender is running. I am going to repost a photo from the vendors site that I posted early in this discussion.
You will see that it says you can damage the range extender controller if it is not connected to the batteries while the range extender is running!
Bad.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #99
Morgantown, that is a very scenic city. How's the blizzard doing?
I've been reading up on MPPT and PWM charge controllers the last two days as it's been raining here the last two days, so nothing better to do.
I've come to the conclusion that the basic ones may not be the best choice.
There are some MPPT charge controllers that can be setup for windmill and water turbine generators. I'll do more research over the next few days.
The issue with the basic charge controllers listed above is that once the batteries become close the being fully charged, these chargers actually start disconnecting and the input voltage to taper off the current and voltage. Basically they are turning off and on hundreds of times a second.
This would not be good for the controller for your range extender as it must always be connected to the batteries while the range extender is running. I am going to repost a photo from the vendors site that I posted early in this discussion.
You will see that it says you can damage the range extender controller if it is not connected to the batteries while the range extender is running!
View attachment 8873
Im guessing this is a really bad sign. I opened up the batteries to use my new hydrometer and they are about a inch down on fluid. I had just topped them up in October. I assumed they would still be full. There is some kind of a baffle just below the current fluid levels so I wasn't even able to suck up enough fluid to test. I'll top them up in the morning. Everything closes early on Sunday.
Blizzard ended now just a ton of shovelling before work in the morning
 

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Im guessing this is a really bad sign. I opened up the batteries to use my new hydrometer and they are about a inch down on fluid. I had just topped them up in October. I assumed they would still be full. There is some kind of a baffle just below the current fluid levels so I wasn't even able to suck up enough fluid to test. I'll top them up in the morning. Everything closes early on Sunday.
Blizzard ended now just a ton of shovelling before work in the morning
Not good. Fill them with deionized water only.
I have a feeling that you are going to be shopping for new batteries this spring.
Do you have a good battery charger in your shop. Before you can use your hydrometer, they need to be recharged. Use the range extender if that is all you have.
Discharging under a heavy load like you do will also deplete the water level.
 
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