[50ShadesOfDirt]

To OP ... by all means, buy that item that makes you feel the most comfortable, especially if you don't want to get bogged down in the research effort. IMO, it needs to be that which best fits your use case, as best you can nail that down. Your HPG BS950 seems to be a Bison generator out of china, with no THD advice from them that I could find.

What I would do if I were in your shoes is instead buy a good pure sine wave inverter, a battery bank for it, and a battery charger, because you have so few loads. If the power goes out, for a short time, or a long time, run off of the above, and refill the battery bank with your existing generator. You basically have a "solar generator", without the solar panels/mppt, because you have an existing generator. The folks over at diysolarforum.com can really help you, if you choose this route.

And be careful about reading any further, because, yes, I'm throwing more info out there ...

Found an interesting read concerning THD (really, "dirty power"):

"The terms 'dirty power' and 'clean power', generally mean absolutely nothing in the power industry, and are used mainly by people who don't know anything about power quality issues; and snake oil salesmen trying to sell their overpriced products to these very people. So, let's get some fact's straight.

First, most electronics equipment that people think of with bogus terms like 'sensitive electronics equipment' aren't sensitive at all. In fact, for the most part; this equipment cares the least about the quality of its power input. Bear in mind, that most of this equipment first converts its power source to DC, before using any of it. It will be the equipment itself, including its filters and voltage regulators that determines the quality of its DC power - not the source. Yes, there could be some ripple transmitted to the DC power; but that is primarily a function of how crappy its power supply is. Most of the buzz about the need to 'clean up your power' actually comes from manufacturer's selling equipment that supposedly does just that. And more often than not, it's pure BS.

Computers, PCs, and anything with a switch mode power supply (SMPS), draws its power in two large bursts of current during each cycle of a sine wave. It basically doesn't give a crap what the source looks like as long as there is power to draw. And oppositely, SMPSs do more to damage the quality of the input power from their source, than anything else. If you want clean power, don't put SMPSs on circuits with other equipment. This equipment is designed to function as long as its input source is within the CBEMA (ITIC) curve. Basically, its designed to function without rebooting with a very crappy source. This means that some 90% of equipment people think are 'sensitive electronics', in fact are not; and also damage the quality of the source horrendously by loading it up with harmonics."

And they end with this:

"Seriously, what you are trying to do is akin to replacing the carburetor on a car that is running fine; because you think it may not be running fine. Don't waste your money trying to fix something that has no symptoms and is not broken. First, you'll probably make it worse. Second, you'll be out of a lot of money, that you could have used usefully for something else. If you really have money burning a hole in your pocket; hire someone with the equipment and know-how to perform a power quality study, and provide a proper interpretation. Then spend money fixing anything that is truly a problem."

I hope the poster's words are better than anything I could write ...

In general, my research has led me to believe that THD isn't really the problem sales folks want you to believe it is, and my decade of experience in power generation backs that up. It isn't even the root cause of most of our power difficulties ... many other factors are. Power surges, on the other hand, from the grid no less, and from within your own home, are both a big issue and easily solved, and I solved that with various inexpensive SPD's (see my older thread about it in this forum).

What the above posting indicates to me is that power in all forms (generation, devices using it, etc) is very complex ... how you research it and determine what you'll do about it is really the answer. Power issues (all of them) have been around for decades now ...

If you have a valid use case that meets your requirements, and you feel that an inverter-gen is right for that use case, then that is very compelling ... because it is your use case and how you are going to solve it. An inverter-gen for "camping" is very compelling, for many obvious reasons (portable, low noise, fuel economy, etc.)

I don't have all the answers ... I just have information from tons of research, my own long-term experiences, and a desire to share it in the hope that it helps, as that is what forums are for!

 

[speedy2019]

Plus you will struggle to find anything on "electronics damaged due to generators" online. I found 1 instance of this when googling, but this was because the generator ran out of fuel and it was surging.....

Did anyone wrorry about this problem before inverter generators came out?

 

[billt]

Personally I think all of this THD, "dirty power" stuff is highly overrated. As was mentioned, if electronic devices were getting trashed from this, it would be all over the Internet.

It's not. I have 2 Westinghouse 9500 DF generators. I have run all of my electronic devices off them without so much as a single hiccup.

I think a lot of this comes from overloading too small of a unit. Than from this whole beaten to death subject of, "dirty power".

 

[MalickCTU]

Now I am getting controversial posts here. Some say I do need to switch to inverter-generator while some say they have had not problems with high THD generators while using PC and other sensitive electronics. So I could not resist and used my gen with PC, TV and AV reciever and yes - no problem! The only difference I noticed was that my PC made some-what buzzing/whizz noise.

 

[GenKnot]

The only difference I noticed was that my PC made some-what buzzing/whizz noise.

That should tell you that there is a difference between your grid power and your generator power.

 

[bassguitarist1985]

Personally I think all of this THD, "dirty power" stuff is highly overrated. As was mentioned, if electronic devices were getting trashed from this, it would be all over the Internet.

It's not. I have 2 Westinghouse 9500 DF generators. I have run all of my electronic devices off them without so much as a single hiccup.

I think a lot of this comes from overloading too small of a unit. Than from this whole beaten to death subject of, "dirty power".

Its not overrated, it is a real issue. Certainly not trying to beat the topic more. THD stresses out electronic components. Will they still work with high THD? Yes. Will they fail prematurely if run for long periods on THD? Absolutely yes.

The bigger failure point of electronics on generator power is the voltage spike/surge. If your refrigerator kicks on when you have your computer running if it's not on a proper search protector good chance that your computer's going to get fried unless you have a very good search protector.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Yes, you can use a "quality" non-inverter gen for most electronics.

No, you can't use a "poor quality" non-inverter gen, because there could be numerous reasons why it still isn't a good fit. It has little to do with THD, and much to do with the "strength" (the stiffness) of power and the manufacturing quality & maintenance any gen has seen from the start of its life to now. You might also not have your devices in the "sweet spot" of where this little gen puts out power.

These aren't so much "controversial" posts as they are everyone trying to figure out technical truth from marketing spin ... just take them as advice from a bunch of friends as you try to figure out what you are going to do.

I'm not all that familiar with Bison (china parent manufacturer), but I see this same (low-end) model in numerous places, like Harbor Freight and others. This would make me a tad uncomfortable from the start. Without knowing its background, and with not many people reviewing it that I can find, I'd tell you to investigate its capabilities more, or find more reviews somehow.

In other words, try to compare it's power output and feature set with other more well-known brands of the same wattage & features, and see if you still want to use it or "upgrade" it to a more well-known and powerful make/model.

Otherwise, I'd do something like I suggested earlier ... pure sine wave inverter, battery bank, battery charger, and this little gen just drives the charger to replenish the battery bank ... for emergencies.

My computers, and everything else, can run from my non-inverter gen, not because it is or isn't a low-THD model, but because it puts out very stiff power and I don't overload it. It's pretty high quality, for a $1k open-frame non-inverter gen. These devices don't make any "noise" as they run on it ... they are also right in the sweet spot of power that my gen puts out.

Hope this helps ...

 

[speedy2019]

At the end of the day, we've managed fine without the inverter generator for many years..

I have a cheap non inverter 4stroke generator and I am quite wary when running household electronics, but I think people should wrorry more about surges then high THD. The last time I ran my generartor during a powercut, I was running a 55" LED TV, skybox, router and phone, plus a few lights and I everything ran totally fine, the same as being on grid power.... I keep or try to keep my generator well maintained and running smoothly as this is the best way to keep surges to a minimum and my wrorries with running sensitive electronics will hopefully fade the more I run them on my generator

 

[billt]

At the end of the day, we've managed fine without the inverter generator for many years..

I have a cheap non inverter 4stroke generator and I am quite wary when running household electronics, but I think people should worry more about surges then high THD. The last time I ran my generator during a powercut, I was running a 55" LED TV, skybox, router and phone, plus a few lights and I everything ran totally fine, the same as being on grid power.... I keep or try to keep my generator well maintained and running smoothly as this is the best way to keep surges to a minimum and my wrorries with running sensitive electronics will hopefully fade the more I run them on my generator

I have experienced much the same. I also have never seen any convincing data that proves electronics will fail sooner if they're run on so called, "dirty power". As I said in a previous post, if this theory held any truth, you would be seeing results of those failures all over the Internet.

The fact is you don't. Especially today with more generators in use than ever before. And most of them are NOT of the inverter type. This type of misinformation is repeated about as much as hearing how you'll damage your vehicle's engine if you don't use these new water thin oils car manufacturers are recommending, not insisting on.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

I can't find much detail on the bison low-end (small) portable gens ... but, I occasionally run across a reference like the following:

"Some generators and motors have brushes - contacts made of carbon - to connect to the coils on the rotating shaft (part of the electricity generation process). As the contact is not perfect with the shaft there will be some arcing that will be happening at a somewhat regular rate as the contacts go past the brushes ... this will sound like a buzzing."

It could be that the noise you hear from your PC (power supply) or other device is the result of the Bison gen's design as a low-cost product. At a low-end price, it may not be a "brushless" design, and it may produce more noise in the devices it powers. Perhaps your "manual" for the gen will indicate if it is brush or brushless.

Another way to cut out the noise is to use the gen only to recharge a battery-bank, and the battery-bank & pure sine wave inverter actually powers the electronics. The only advantage of this over an inverter-gen is that the gen recharging the battery-bank doesn't run continuously ... more like 4 hours in 24, or whenever battery-bank needs charging. Should also save fuel, let you separate the gen (distance) from the devices it is intended to power, etc.

Hope this helps ...

 

[MalickCTU]

I found I have an external voltage stabilizer (AVR-REL-SLIM1500-WL):
View attachment 13954


What if I use this combination: my two stroke generator (700W max output) -> AVR (900W max output) -> Offline UPS (600W max output) -> my equipment (TV, PC etc. below 500W power consumption). Will this be clean enough power? I know my UPS has surge protection but thats all. If power fails, there will be 2ms-5ms power gap when batteries kick in. Im guessing im still not getting a pure sine wave?

 

[GenKnot]

Im guessing im still not getting a pure sine wave?

I don't see any reference to the output waveform in their specifications. So, I doubt it is pure sine wave because manufacturers would make sure that information gets into the specifications.

 

[MalickCTU]

AVR specs:

Automatic Voltage Regulator- 1500VA
AC Input Voltage: 150V~260V
Input Frequency: 45Hz~65Hz
AC Output Voltage: 230V
Output Frequency: Synchronized with mains
Output Precision without load: +4% -8%
Power Factor: 0.6
Efficiency: >0.95
Operating Temperature: -10°C~40°C
Operating Humidity: 0~90% (Non-condensing)
Noise: =56dB (full load, distance at 1 meter)
Delay Time: 6/180 seconds selectable
Protection: Output Low Voltage, Output High Voltage,
Overheat, Short Circuit
Protection class: I; IP20

 

[iowagold]

if the output is synced with the mains then a bad gen set with low or high HZ would pass the error down through.

so a basic no on this.

 

[LaSwamp]

I have my Firman non-inverter generator that I use for things like the hot plate and coffee percolator, neither of which are bothered by THD. However, I would not use it for much else. I would liken it to living off of McDonald's food. I could probably live off of McDonald's, but I wouldn't want to. Using a high THD non-inverter generator is like that. While I think the Firman would certainly power everything, I'd feel much better using the inverters for most items, especially electronics.

 

[speedy2019]

I have my Firman non-inverter generator that I use for things like the hot plate and coffee percolator, neither of which are bothered by THD. However, I would not use it for much else. I would liken it to living off of McDonald's food. I could probably live off of McDonald's, but I wouldn't want to. Using a high THD non-inverter generator is like that. While I think the Firman would certainly power everything, I'd feel much better using the inverters for most items, especially electronics.

Someone tried living off McDonald's and it almost killed him... I think he managed 1-2weeks eating nothing else accept McDonald's.

 

[LaSwamp]

Someone tried living off McDonald's and it almost killed him... I think he managed 1-2weeks eating nothing else accept McDonald's.

It's in a documentary called Super Size Me.

"Morgan Spurlock, an American independent filmmaker, made it. Spurlock's film follows a 30-day period from February 1 to March 2, 2003, during which he ate only McDonald's food. The film documents the drastic effect on Spurlock's physical and psychological health and well-being. It also explores the fast food industry's corporate influence, including how it encourages poor nutrition for its own profit and gain.

Spurlock ate at McDonald's restaurants three times a day, eating every item on the chain's menu at least once. Spurlock consumed an average of 20.9 megajoules or 5,000 kcal (the equivalent of 9.26 Big Macs) per day during the experiment. He also walked about 2 kilometers (1.5 miles) a day. An intake of around 2,500 kcal within a healthy balanced diet is more generally recommended for a man to maintain his weight. As a result, the then-32-year-old Spurlock gained 24.5 pounds (11.1 kg), a 13% body mass increase, increased his cholesterol to 230 mg/dL (6.0 mmol/L), and experienced mood swings, sexual dysfunction, and fat accumulation in his liver. It took Spurlock fourteen months to lose all the weight gained from his experiment using a vegan diet supervised by his then-girlfriend, a chef who specializes in gourmet vegan dishes."

Spurlock followed specific rules governing his eating habits:

He must fully eat three McDonald's meals per day: breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
He must consume every item on the McDonald's menu at least once over the course of the 30 days (he managed this in nine days).
He must only ingest items that are offered on the McDonald's menu, including bottled water. All outside consumption of food is prohibited.
He must Super Size the meal if offered, but he cannot request to Super Size on his own.
He will attempt to walk about as much as a typical United States citizen, based on a suggested figure of 5,000 standardized distance steps per day, but he did not closely adhere to this, as he walked more while in New York than in Houston.

A short epilogue was added to the film. It showed that the salads can contain even more calories than burgers if the customer adds liberal amounts of cheese and dressing prior to consumption. Also, it described McDonald's discontinuation of the Super Size option six weeks after the movie's premiere, as well as its recent emphasis on healthier menu items such as salads, and the release of the new adult Happy Meal. McDonald's denied that these changes had anything to do with the film.

 

[Dutchy491]

Tonight’s home cooked meal will be locally grown beef sirloin steaks for 2, potatoes from our garden and frozen Brussels sprouts smothered in butter. Not sure if I can wait for supper time to come…oh, and my generator is ready to run the lights if needed. 😉