[MalickCTU]

I know inverter generator would be ideal but still? Can I use my cheap two stroke generator for my PC and TV reasonably safely? Anybody experienced PC or TC damage from generator?
My understanding is that the critical moment for electronic equipment connected to the generator is when I turn ON the TV or PC (applying the load). Then the voltage/frequency drops for a brief moment and then stabilizes.

Once all equipment is turned on then the load is stable and therefore the generator voltage/frequency should be stable, right?
I guess im asking is - what is the % change that my equipment be damaged? All modern electronics, PC, TV-s should have some fail-safe, AVR-s built inside on their on, right?

Im not planning to use this generator as off-gird but only on occasions when the power is out and it happens 2-3 times a year.

I also have UPS but unfortunately it does not accept this generator as input...

 

[GenKnot]

Once all equipment is turned on then the load is stable and therefore the generator voltage/frequency should be stable, right?

It might be more stable at that point, but that doesn't mean it is clean power. The THD of the generator is what might harm your electronics more than a minor fluctuation of voltage or frequency.

 

[Columbotrek]

UPS are most sensitive to frequency and voltage. Some UPS can be configured to be less sensitive. Keep the generator inside the UPS limits for best results. Old school UPS output square wave. Ran my PC fine as the Switching power supplies in the PC rectify sine to square wave into DC then convert that into all the various voltages required.

 

[iowagold]

I know inverter generator would be ideal but still? Can I use my cheap two stroke generator for my PC and TV reasonably safely? Anybody experienced PC or TC damage from generator?
My understanding is that the critical moment for electronic equipment connected to the generator is when I turn ON the TV or PC (applying the load). Then the voltage/frequency drops for a brief moment and then stabilizes.

Once all equipment is turned on then the load is stable and therefore the generator voltage/frequency should be stable, right?
I guess im asking is - what is the % change that my equipment be damaged? All modern electronics, PC, TV-s should have some fail-safe, AVR-s built inside on their on, right?

Im not planning to use this generator as off-gird but only on occasions when the power is out and it happens 2-3 times a year.

I also have UPS but unfortunately it does not accept this generator as input...

it would be a hard pass for me.
buy a proper inverter generator is the best advice.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Don't know the model of your gen or how old/crappy it is ... generally, modern gens that are sized right for the intended loads don't sag (even temporarily) unless you turn on a really big load (coffee pot, freezer/compressor, etc.)

If your PC and TV have "external" power supplies (power bricks), then these smps power blocks should handle output from most any gen just fine, as they take any range of power and basically invert within themselves. If your pc has an internal power supply (p/s), it will also do the smps thing. These are the front line between your device and the gen, and if they ever give out, you just replace the power brick, not the whole PC or TV. 2 or 3 power outages in a year won't kill the bricks anytime soon.

If your TV does not have a power brick, then it has an internal/custom smps power board, and if this gets damaged, you are looking at surgery to replace it. Nobody does surgery on a TV any more, so this TV would most likely be a loss. Whereas, a PC's internal p/s is designed to be easily replaced, in a few minutes, by any competent computer shop.

As mentioned in posts above and elsewhere on this forum, do think about investing in some inexpensive surge protector (SPD) power strips.

Hope this helps ...

 

[MalickCTU]

I have this cheapo: HPG BS950, 750W, 2 stroke, single phase, AC 220v @50Hz, Motor type 1E45F

 

[GenKnot]

I have this cheapo: HPG BS950

Look at the waveform this gen produces in the video. I wouldn't put that on anything I valued.

[Hot Item] Bison (China) BS950 650W Copper Wire Small Portable Gasoline Generator

Output Type: AC Single Phase Starting: Electric Start Phase: Single-Phase Power: 650W Standard: Standard Exporting Area: Europe, Middle East;Southeast Asia, South America

bisonpower.en.made-in-china.com

 

[speedy2019]

Well 2 stroke engines are not really made for hard work as I see then mainly in grass trimmers, and all generators do sag for a spit second when you add a load, but the sag time will increase having a weaker engine.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

So, my wgen9500df doesn't sag noticeably when I fire up the desktop pc beast and all it's associated gear; whatever speed it is running at, it stays there (the load fits under it's current running speed). The gen does sag noticeably with the coffee pot, freezer (and it's compressor), microwave ... but in all these big load cases, it's just for a second or two, as the AVR finds the new setting to smooth things out. My guess is that the little things never really push it over the edge from its optimal power/speed, so I never "hear" a sag.

However, the itty-bitty gen mentioned in OP might indeed "sag" when he gets near it with an electric toothbrush, as there just aren't any watts to work with. This category (I'll call it the "micro-gen"), in my mind, would be suitable for emergency use only for very small electronics like laptops, phone chargers, etc.

Now that I know what OP has, I would suggest this route:
- pure sine wave inverter (sized for your loads) + battery bank + appropriate battery charger

Use your gen only to recharge the battery bank; your battery charger probably doesn't care about the gen's power output, and it will be a nice, constant load until battery bank is full. You'll also gain the benefits of clean power for your devices and possibly even overnight operation (w/o the gen having to run).

Later, if desired, add solar panels, mppt, and further reduce the hours of operation/fuel for the gen. With this arrangement, no need to invest in an inverter-gen, which would still have to run every hour of operation that your devices are, unless you get a battery bank (a buffer) in there somehow.

Folks over at diysolarforum.com can help with further details of the above ...

 

[zz28zz]

Look at the waveform this gen produces in the video. I wouldn't put that on anything I valued.

[Hot Item] Bison (China) BS950 650W Copper Wire Small Portable Gasoline Generator

Output Type: AC Single Phase Starting: Electric Start Phase: Single-Phase Power: 650W Standard: Standard Exporting Area: Europe, Middle East;Southeast Asia, South America

bisonpower.en.made-in-china.com

Something fishy abt that video. Appears to be putting out over 8K watts!

 

[GenKnot]

Something fishy abt that video. Appears to be putting out over 8K watts!

And, it sounds more like a four-stroke engine to me. But, that's the video they posted with the generator so I don't know.

 

[bassguitarist1985]

Modern PC/Laptop/TV power supplies use Active Power Factor correction circuitry to be most efficient. High THD will damage the IC running this circuit. Older power supplies used Passive Power Factor correction using a simple inductor and large capacitor. High THD didn't matter as often these components were oversized to accept the extra easte heat produced by the voltages at higher harmonics of 60HZ.

Also only cheap "standby" battery backup units output square wave or the slightly better modified (stepped) sine wave output. The square wave outputs are inferior, and Pure Sine "Line Interactive" UPS units are only marginally more expensive where its worth the peace of mind.

If you value any of your expensive electronics you will NOT use thia generator for anything but run a toaster or some cheap lights.

 

[MalickCTU]

Ok. I will go buy inverter generator then. They should put warning information on those generators that "do not use sensitive electronics like PC with this generator". I was like ok my TV says input AC 120-220v 50/60Hz and generator specs AC 220V 50Hz 750W so I should be good. **** marketing...

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

I use modern electronics day in, day out, all on gens like the wgen9500df ... up to 4 hours per day, over many years; over 1000 hours per each year. My gen is approx "25% THD". Not a problem with anything, and I get the normal lifespan out of these electronics. If THD were a problem, I'd expect devices to have short lifespans and die early deaths; over the decade that I've now been running such gens, I'd expect to see a trail of electronic corpses ...

PC's/laptops, TV's, etc ... been running these things for years on high-THD open-frame gens. My guess is that the true prime suspects for early death of electronics is:

1. warranty expires (planned obsolescense) ... fix: buy better quality products, w/ longer warranties
2. power surges (this is not THD) ... fix: put in inexpensive surge protection

Most folks will use a gen a few times per year, for a few hours, not 1000's of hours each year as I do. I'm running gens at near two orders of magnitude difference. No problems here ...

Not saying Bass is wrong, and I am certainly no EE ... but I do sense disconnects in THD discussions, after a ton of research into it on my part. As marketing is involved, I suspect FUD geared towards sales ... marketing literature is about selling more, and selling at higher prices. FUD is very effective ...

While the "YMMV" always applies, all I can tell you is that my electronics survive just fine ...

However, if one can accept all the trade-offs of an inverter-gen (price, complexity, etc.), then by all means, buy it over an open-frame non-inverter gen. The higher prices are definitely good for the economy!

 

[Jager]

They should put warning information on those generators that "do not use sensitive electronics like PC with this generator".

They kinda do. The price tag suggests, very strongly, what you're going to be receiving.

We do usually get what we pay for.

 

[GenKnot]

They should put warning information on those generators that "do not use sensitive electronics like PC with this generator".

On many of the generators that you buy nowadays, you will find exactly that type of statement in their literature or on their website. I don't think I have seen it actually written on a gen. Sometimes you have to go to a third party and find it if the manufacturer doesn't provide a caution. For example, the WGEN9500 just says in its specs that it is <23% THD, so they rely upon an educated consumer to make the correct choice. But, a third party that has evaluated the gen often just tells you outright not to use it with sensitive electronics such as this:

Westinghouse WGen7500 VS WGen9500 - Spec & Feature Comparison

Let's review the key differences between the Westinghouse WGen9500 and the WGen7500. Which generator will be the most suitable for your needs? Come find out...

generatorbible.com

If you are using the WGEN9500 on a construction site with power tools, then you probably have nothing to worry about. Or if your older electronics do not have active power factor correction, then you might get away with occasional use also. I have an older Champion high THD gen in 2008 that I used and also loaned out to others without any issues. But I recently bought a new high-efficiency gas furnace and I cannot run it with that old Champion, thus I bought an inverter gen with <1.5% THD. If I purchased a new fridge, I might run into the same issue as they are becoming extremely electronically sophisticated and more efficient to operate. It wouldn't make sense to risk a $2500-$3500 fridge by trying to run it on a cheap high THD gen.

It is not a marketing ploy to have both high THD and low THD generators available as each has its uses. It is about knowing your loads and what you need to safely run them.

 

[MalickCTU]

So can someone tell me that is the THD of my cheap generator? (HPG BS950 ) I do not find it in the specs or manual.

 

[MalickCTU]

Never mind, Im still not going to use it on my TV/PC. Im getting inverter-gen...

 

[GenKnot]

Im getting inverter-gen...

Wise move. You won't have to worry about possibly damaging your electronics, and they are also more fuel efficient with ECO mode operation available.

 

[bassguitarist1985]

On many of the generators that you buy nowadays, you will find exactly that type of statement in their literature or on their website. I don't think I have seen it actually written on a gen. Sometimes you have to go to a third party and find it if the manufacturer doesn't provide a caution. For example, the WGEN9500 just says in its specs that it is <23% THD, so they rely upon an educated consumer to make the correct choice. But, a third party that has evaluated the gen often just tells you outright not to use it with sensitive electronics such as this:
View attachment 13896

Westinghouse WGen7500 VS WGen9500 - Spec & Feature Comparison

Let's review the key differences between the Westinghouse WGen9500 and the WGen7500. Which generator will be the most suitable for your needs? Come find out...

generatorbible.com

If I purchased a new fridge, I might run into the same issue as they are becoming extremely electronically sophisticated and more efficient to operate. It wouldn't make sense to risk a $2500-$3500 fridge by trying to run it on a cheap high THD gen.

The biggest issue with modern fridges is their internals do not run on AC voltage. It is all regulated DC from a switch mode power supply. As such a DC motor is spinning the now common rotary vane compressor. This type of setup the control circuitry can vary the speed of the motor to the compressor allowing for the change in demand and high efficiency. The old method was to use a large reciprocating compressor with a PSC AC inductive motor that only operated at one speed. Very inefficient but also highly tolerant of poor voltage and THD at the sacrifice of extra heat in the windings.

Too high THD going to that power supply and DC components inside will eventually cause them to fail. Now will running a few hours on a generator with high THD cause them to fail? Not necessarily. The major consequence of high THD is heat and if there's enough tolerance built in, I'm sure modern fridges could even last many hours on generator power. What everyone needs to look out for more than anything when operating on portable generator power is proper surge protection. Too often I see AVRs fail or maladjusted where the voltages too high or too low that will cause problems. Then if the engine is not running out the proper speed, or worse hunting and surging with a load on it now you're asking for trouble.