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Discussion Starter #1
Hi again, new thread for a different problem.

https://youtu.be/SuQc2gmoDXs

I am wondering something. Is it necessary to have the throttle on the fuel injection open full to get proper voltage?

Is there something wrong with the voltage regulation? Is there something wrong with the Exciter?

Is the injection pump the wrong one for this machine or is it just not setup properly?

Previous owner replaced it but never used it after for any length of time.

Shouldn't the generator auto regulate this?

Am I missing something entirely? Probably....

There is a decent amount of smoke coming from the exhaust, white smoke. Is the timing for the injection wrong?

Thanks
 

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I watched your video. Based on what I saw my original suggestion still stands:
>. Set the throttle for 60hz, which is 1800 rpm. You can't do anything else until the engine is running at its rated speed.
>. Use the panel mounted freq meter (upper right) to indicate when it's at 60 hz - the meter will rise and center on "60"
>. Once at proper speed lock the throttle down, don't play with it further.

These are the first steps I would do. IF you follow these steps then you can check for voltage. And possibly move on to other questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you melson, that cleared a few things up right away in my head.

I kept an eye on the Hz meter while adjusting the throttle. Got it to a steady 60hz. Voltages are fine.

I guess all that is left is to find a wiring diagram to wire to Single Phase, and maybe try to reduce the white smoke from the exhaust or at least find a way to mask it.
 

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OK hopefully things are starting to make sense - 1 thing at a time is how you do it.
Questions: May I ask why you want to wire fully single phase? Do you know how many KW your expected load is?
Reason I ask is because, since that is a 3 ph alternator you already have three, single phase-to-neutral circuits that will power multiple loads.
 

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Each leg of the three phases will theoretically carry 20kw to neutral. In practice this could be a bit conservative.

Personally, I'd put some thought into splitting your loads so that half go onto one phase, the rest onto another.
This would preserve the integrity and rating of the genset, make it easier to sell, easier to troubleshoot, easier to repair.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So a 3 phase panel to manage the loads?

I was hoping to avoid rewiring the panel and having to buy a new one.

Is it that difficult to rewire to single phase on this machine, the wiring is very easy to access. I just wish I knew which wires to put where.....

Any ideas?

Thanks again
 

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No, not a 3-ph panel.
It might help to visualize that each phase of the 3 phases as a single, independent leg capable of powering XX amps (to the neutral leg)

Each leg of the three is capable of running single ph loads.

Thus, if you can find a way to split your ac breaker panel then you could use two of the three phases in that manner.

However, (there's always a "but", right?)...
This is a three phase set and is meant to power loads between phases.
This means that the neutral wire is not meant to handle all the power that the alternator can produce, and, in fact, is not sized from the factory to do so.
At some point you risk overloading that single neutral conductor.
Also, by using the generator in such a manner -were you to heavily load two of the three legs (to the neutral wire)- then you are unbalancing the alternator.
That is a somewhat lesser, secondary issue. One you can get away with as long as you understand it and the combined loads don't overload that neutral wire's ampacity.

For example, a severely unbalanced generator can exhibit heating of the alternator and 'chugging' or oscillation of the prime mover. That would be a worse case scenario.
In your case it doesn't sound like this would be an issue, but you need to understand it.

And, so, given all of the above, this is where the "but" comes into play. Because, as you see this isn't a normal operating scenario and, although it's definitely doable, there are some considerations that make doing so a bit more complicated.

Because of the above I very *highly*recommend that you find the resources to hire a qualified expert, either a local electrician who knows generators, or, you could call Kohler, who would find a local certified contractor for you to hire.
Another contractor you could contact is Alturdyne in California. They employ qualified generator techs around the country and would be glad to send one to your location.

None of that is cheap, but you be a wise man to do this. It would also get you going quickest and, most importantly, safely.

It's up to you how you proceed from here. Just realize that in the real world of life, the world we all live in, you pretty much get what you pay for - and... what you don't pay for.
In the long-term scheme it's well worth considering getting some outside, hands-on, help. IMHO.

Good luck!
 

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I picked up on the light grey smoke from the exhaust.
In my working years I owned over 20 diesels and I am not a certified diesel mechanic but I have been around a few.
Since the previous owner changed the injector pump it may be possible that he managed to get trash in one of the injectors or actually got it slightly out of time.
Trash in an injector will cause the spray to be a pisser which will cause a bad firing.
For sure if the diesel pump has no slotted adjustment on the mount then timing is not in question.
Taking some time to put a wrench on each injector one at a time and loosen the fuel line nut while running, then it is possible that you may find the culprit for the smoke.
Be reminded to only loosen the nut, not remove it.
You can buy one injector and swap out each injector with the new one until you find the bad boy.
 

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@ Melson: In your reply you mentioned splitting the panel to accommodate the three phase power.
Years ago I had several sheets of info on the use of three phase transformer connections including buck boost configurations and a multitude of different set ups.
Any number of voltages were included however we used 550 Y with 358 to ground and transformed our 120 volts.
I am thinking that it may not be such a good idea for a novice to get involved in installing a panel to accomplish use of the entire generator output.
I feel comfortable that you or I could accomplish a panel install, but not a novice.
In the above post there was mention of 35 KW needed and I am curious why 60kwOwner would need such a load requirement unless he actually needed three phase.
After all he has 20 KW on one leg and if he needs 35 KW (145.8 amps) at full load he needs to get a new single phase generator or get a licensed electrician to install a three phase panel and get his utility reinstalled.
A 35 KW load would require at least a 45 KW generator to meet his demands using the 80% rule.
I would certainly not like to pay his power bill at 35 KW load.
 

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@ToolLover, I think -hmmm. You're right.
This post started-out with several questions, a total mish-mosh, really. Some things not even related. I tried to get the OP to parse the basics. Which, finally, he did. I *think*.
As the topic morphed and twisted and KRE went nutty, I could see a novice in over his head. Still, I felt things were recoverable.
But, now, I have to agree with both you and @iowagold: The OP is better off going fully single phase.
There's still the "issue" of the smoke - honestly, I"m not convinced there is a problem at all, or, at least, not worth getting all ga-ga over. That looks like a RoosaMaster pump, which, if so, I don't recommend fooling with. In any case, we won't know about this smoke thing until a decent load is applied.
So guys, I'm on your side. Sometimes, I guess I feel compelled to help even though my answers only lead to more complication.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for the information, the generator was donated for a nursery project. Large load for the lights.

Definitely a novice. But I am having fun learning new things.

I hear you Melson but there just isn't the money for that at the moment.

Option A:

I will be able to get the model number it looks like so maybe I can get it rewired to single phase and leave the panel in that is already there and not have to buy a new one. Feasible?

Option B:

I think I will order a 3 Phase Panel and balance the loads across the posts as I have seen done in a YouTube explanation. What do you guys think? Only need the single panel so I think that would be the way to go.


I could sell it and trade it in for a single phase however it is needed in that time it would take to find a buyer to sell to and getting a new one delivered and old one picked up.


Exhaust smoke has started to go away so there is that...

I also changed the oil. Pretty straight forward.
 

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@60kwOwner, going three phase is not only technically best, but also best from an efficiency POV.

I suggested splitting the fuse panel to get an idea of your knowledge -which, btw, I meant to electrically split the loads between phases, not physically split; all 240vac home panels are already electrically split and wiring is no big deal; I simply wanted you to consult with a professional for safety reasons because if you did this you'd have to understand the difference between an all 120 vac panel (probably not code, either, btw) and a 120/240 panel.

Bottom line, a 3-ph panel would serve you best with regards to engine mechanical health and, in the event your business grows you'll have electrical growth options already in hand.
Remember, in life you basically get what you pay for. This includes personal knowledge and experience; everything in life has a price.
Good luck my friend. Be safe.
 

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@60kwOwner:
In the late sixties I installed a three phase panel for my newly built welding shop that encompassed several three phase motors.
I used a salvaged fusible panel and rewired the shop myself.
Then I had to install several smaller fusible boxes to distribute the power.
The Utility: Duke Power would not give me what I had expected as I like you really was expecting them to cooperate.
They gave me 208 three phase with a high leg.
Two pole transformers were installed and Duke although they had 120 ac available would not give it to me because 120 vac could not be metered.
Which that led me to have to transform my 120 vac.
I installed a 30 amp transformer which limited the available power and the transformer was not cheap.
That turned out to be not such a good idea.
At the time Duke had a policy that your highest energy bill would hold the user to that price for a year following.
I eventually had to make other arrangements as I realized I had made a bad decision.
I suggest that you not only do as Melson advises, you contact your utility for further info and see if they will cooperate.
I doubt they will without a complete rewire of your property, and then there is the local inspection division.
What I expect you will discover is that buying a new 60 KW generator will be far less expensive in the long run.
You might find a rewire shop that will rewire the generator for single phase.
Rewiring what you have is the best solution. Believe me!
Single phase usually requires two Horse power per KW, as that was the requirement for tractor powered generators on the farm.
I used a 70 HP Massey Ferguson to power a 30 KW PTO generator at the time.
I hope you understand what you are getting into before you make the leap.
 

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Ah. @ToolLover, that's an excellent heads-up. I wasn't considering the reaction of the local power supplier. But, right, depending upon local resources getting 3 ph utility power might be problematic. I can understand that a rural provider might not be amenable to work with a homeowner.
I feel for you about the cost of that transformer. And by that time you had no good options. That sucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
You guys are great, I love listening to chatter like this from experts.

This property is 100% off grid, water from a well, power from generators. Local utilities are of no concern as they refuse to come this far out without a huge cost associated.

I was just thinking of getting the 3 phase panel to accept each of the three lugs on the generator so that I can balance the 208-220v 50amp breakers across them. This should achieve what I want correct?

Like;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008KNO7VC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It pains me to not just rewire it because I already bought a panel and installed it and I felt I did a good job at it, also wouldn't be able to take it back now that I drilled holes into it. :tango_face_wink:



 

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The off-grid info you just mentioned changes things.


Option "B": If you never foresee buying and using commercial power -using only the generator for pwr- a 3 ph panel becomes a viable option.
> Doing so allows balancing your loads evenly across all three legs (more-or-less, not critical).
> It would allow use of the generator's full, 60kw electrical rating. Which should give peace-of-mind for future, additional, and perhaps, unplanned loads.
> It would also allow the flexibility to power 240 vac loads that can tolerate the lower, three phase 208 (or so) vac.

Remember to use the green "ground" wire to tie the bkr panel to the generator ground tie point regardless of which option you choose.

Good luck.
 

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@ 60KWOwner:
The following info is for your use and is not meant to chastise your work.
Was your new panel install inspected? I doubt it!
I am friends with the local inspector and add to that I went to code school with the guy that wrote the code book.
I find your install to be lacking in correctness for today's code.
To start with:
I notice a No-No in the bottom right where your utility enters.
That knock out in the panel should have had a bushing in the opening to pass code.
Wires vibrate and can cause the sharp chassis to cut into the insulation. However.....
Unless you used service entrance cable then the feed should have been in 2" pipe from the meter.
Ok, I am also curious as to the size wire you have feeding from the meter?
2 aught or 4 aught aluminum? I am getting a little forgetful due to my age but I was thinking 4 aught aluminum is for 200 amps.
Did you coat the aluminum with a protectant to keep oxidation to a minimum?
Your entrance cable looks a little small for 4 aught. Old eyes though.
Now to the meat of the new panel.
The code for today is that neutrals and grounds have to be separated.
Meaning that the ground is bonded to the panel and a separate 10' copper clad ground rod driven into the ground under the meter.
Then a heavy ground is fed to the panel. I am thinking number 8 or larger.
A ground bus must be attached to the panel and not connected to the neutral.
Your picture shows two neutral buses with grounds and neutrals connected together.
To be up to code, you should mount a ground bus in the bottom and ground it to a ground rod.
Then remove the bond screw that connects the neutral to the chassis.
If you cannot remove the neutral from the chassis, then you have been sold an out of date panel.
I am surprised an inspector would pass that install.
Then of course it will work and the 1950's panels were installed in your configuration.
For the most part, you did a pretty neat job, you just needed guidance to get it correct.
You can still make the corrections with a little effort.
I edited this to add that a GFI will not work with your panel wired as you have it. Four wires are needed for a GFI to operate correctly.
GFI's are required for bath room outlets, kitchen outlets and outside outlets. Code!
 

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Liabilities:
Your liability for the install.
Burn the building down and the insurance company will wear you out and not pay for the building damage.
Let some kid get electrocuted and you will face jail time as well as suit from a family member.
You best heed the code and comply.
I do no longer do wiring due to the greed of lawyers and insurance companies.
Insurance is far more than I can afford to even help a neighbor do minor work.
I am near 80 now, and I have 60 years experience.
Even I make mistakes, and that is why I no longer do installs.
When I wanted to install my generator transfer switch I asked the inspector if I could install it myself.
He looked at me with one of those looks.
I said I bet will pass inspection!
He said you are on. How much? Lunch I said!
Well I covered every inch over and over.
Came time for inspection, it failed!
I had a metal 2" pipe from the meter to the panel and had left off the grounding bushing.
I hung my head and bought lunch.
 
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