[Derp]

As the title says, I'm looking for an emergency generator. I've learned that an inverter generator is what I need and it appears that the Firman WH03242 would be ideal. I've got some network equipment, a freezer, a refrigerator, and probably a space heater (for winter) that I'd want to power. I'd prefer to use propane so this would give me 3000 running watts. This would allow me to power a neighbors essentials if needed as well.

I'm in Canada and the Costco price is $999. I'd hope to buy on sale for $899 or less. I'm also planning on buying a magnetic oil plug to try to get more life out of the oil and the generator since it has no filter.
I'm also hoping to store it as well as run it in my garage and pipe the exhaust outside. I've got a detached garage so I also plan on running a 30A cable from the garage to the house.

At this point I'm just kicking tires and I'd be curious to know if you have any other suggestions for a dual fuel inverter generator, 3000w or so, for $1000 or less.

 

[GenKnot]

If noise is not a factor for you, the open-frame inverter generators are much cheaper. You could buy a bigger generator for the about the same price or less than an enclosed unit.

The 3000W gen that you mentioned is really not that much power if you think about it (3000/120 = 25A). With only 25A max available you can't run much. A space heater is typically 12-15 amps, so having much excess power to share with your neighbor will be difficult. And, it is not recommended to run a gen at 100% continuous load full time anyway. Keeping the gen at or below 50-60% continuous rated load will prolong its life. You can make short term runs (like heat a cup of coffee in the microwave) up to 100% rated load without causing much harm.

For example, I have a WEN GN625i that provides 5000W and is converted to run on natural gas. I use it in 120V mode because I don't power any 240V loads during an outage. Even though it can provide 41.6A continuously, I don't run it over 25A if I can help it...but the extra power is there if I need it.

 

[JRHill]

My opinion is few people know how much power they use. How much could be demanded at the same time, etc. And if there is so little appreciation for the demands then how can one determine what generator is suitable? I would also add that few want to live a life of not being able to 'flick a switch' and have what they need available?
Buy a big honkin' generator. It runs and spends most of its fuel consumption just keeping the pieces moving. Buy a little one and it blows up or chokes. You can't have both in one unit. But the inverters, esp the Honda EU7000is comes closest. But it still wastes fuel if you are at a low draw most of the time.

This would allow me to power a neighbors essentials if needed as well.

Not. Your relationship will deteriorate.

 

[Columbotrek]

How were you planning to tie into the house? Or was this plan reliant on a breakout box at the end of the 30A line from the garage with extension cords to the critical loads?

 

[George606]

In the USA, I would look at the Champion 100520. I would then buy the conversion to run it on propane/lpg.

 

[Derp]

The WH03242 has a surge of 3750 on propane so it's not a lot but should be more than what I need to run at 50% or less. My initial plan was to take a 30A line from the garage to the house and then extension cables from there through the house where needed.

I realize neighbors shouldn't rely on me to bail them out (and they don't) but I always like to plan ahead and double my needs just in case. 3000w should be enough.

From what I understand the open frame generators have more dirty power (and lower fuel efficiency) and the inverter generators have a lower ... TDP? around 3% or so because it goes from AC, to DC, and back to AC to clean it up.

 

[GenKnot]

From what I understand the open frame generators have more dirty power (and lower fuel efficiency) and the inverter generators have a lower ... TDP? around 3% or so because it goes from AC, to DC, and back to AC to clean it up.

Open frame does not necessarily mean it is a conventional (non-inverter) generator. They can be conventional or inverter. The TDP you mention is actually THD (Total Harmonic Distortion).

The GN625i that I mentioned is an inverter generator with <1.5% THD. You want to stay under 5% max THD, or better yet, stay under 3% for clean power.

The WH03242 has a surge of 3750 on propane

The surge rating is only for starting items that have an inrush current like a motor. The surge rating should not be considered when looking at continuous loading.

 

[JRHill]

Here is a question: Our Outback VFXR inverter passes generator power through to the house loads and also charges/maintains the batteries at the same time. But it can also be configured to supplement the generator in a overload/spike condition. Its called support mode. So if you were running a smaller inverter generator but maxed out the genset the Outback inverter would add what was needed from battery power. When the load or surge drops out you are 100% back on the generator and charging the batteries as needed. No solar is needed. So if grid power is down and you are on a medium sized generator you have some added capability for loads and spikes. And if the grid is down and the generator isn't running you are running on batteries.

I don't know if Power Walls and the like can be configured to play together with a genset like this? Some people don't want solar power but have installed Power Walls for backup power if the grid goes down.... With the above in place a few panels and controller could be added which is a logical extension.

 

[zudnik]

My opinion is few people know how much power they use. How much could be demanded at the same time, etc. And if there is so little appreciation for the demands then how can one determine what generator is suitable? I would also add that few want to live a life of not being able to 'flick a switch' and have what they need available?
Buy a big honkin' generator. It runs and spends most of its fuel consumption just keeping the pieces moving. Buy a little one and it blows up or chokes. You can't have both in one unit. But the inverters, esp the Honda EU7000is comes closest. But it still wastes fuel if you are at a low draw most of the time.

Not. Your relationship will deteriorate.

That's exactly what I did. Could have spent 20K on a whole house generator with auto cutover, but for 6K all in I have the 7000 a manual transfer switch, some other upgrades and I can take it with me when we move or sell it/donate it.

 

[Jager]

Agree with others that until you actually pin down what your electricity usage is, you're really just guessing. The notion that you'd be running a space heater along with your other stuff, and still have power left over to assist a neighbor, suggests a bit of undue optimism.

Get a Kill-A-Watt (https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU) or similar meter, measure what you're going to be running, and then you'll know.

 

[sledman8002002]

Welcome to the forum Derp!

At this point I'm just kicking tires and I'd be curious to know if you have any other suggestions for a dual fuel inverter generator, 3000w or so, for $1000 or less.

I've no idea what part of the country you're in Derp, but the pickings are slim in regards to the $1000 price point.

Up to you, but you may want to keep an eye on what your chosen inverter gen offers in the way of receptacles. The popular choices for home use offer an L5-30 and/or an L14-30 with a twist lock.
From what I can tell, are you aware the 30 amp outlet on that Firman is an RV type receptacle TT-30? You'll likely require an adapter for what you want to do, not a big deal, just added expense, I imagine you'll be getting a decent quality cord as well?

I've always liked what I've read on the Wen offerings as mentioned above, but I found other than Amazon, sales are pretty much non-existant and priced out of this world (IMO).
I can suggest a Champion inverter offering, model #201080 4650 with dual fuel. Canadian Tire is pushing these out at $1100 (down from $1600). Check your local store for item #055-0383-8 for stock.

https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/201080-4650-watt-dual-fuel-inverter/\

One thing I really like in regards to Champion is they have a Canadian parts warehouse should you need something down the road. They also offer plenty of manuals, how-to videos and a 24/7 help line.

 

[sledman8002002]

Just to add...Receptacle pic examples...

TT-30

L5-30

L14-30

 

[speedyj]

My opinion is few people know how much power they use. How much could be demanded at the same time, etc. And if there is so little appreciation for the demands then how can one determine what generator is suitable? I would also add that few want to live a life of not being able to 'flick a switch' and have what they need available?
Buy a big honkin' generator. It runs and spends most of its fuel consumption just keeping the pieces moving. Buy a little one and it blows up or chokes. You can't have both in one unit. But the inverters, esp the Honda EU7000is comes closest. But it still wastes fuel if you are at a low draw most of the time.

Not. Your relationship will deteriorate.

Even though our furnace and hot water is natural gas, I still run a ~6kw inverter @240v on eco-throttle so I can potentially power any one device anywhere in the house, on either leg of my panel. It lower rpm’s, the bigger gennys do attempt to save fuel but they are most efficient when fully loaded.

I need my coffee maker (1500w on startup alone) and a few other ‘basics’ and that’s well over 3kw when they are all on. Agreed. Go bigger if you can afford it.

 

[speedy2019]

But they also breakdown when fully loaded too..

 

[speedyj]

But they also breakdown when fully loaded too..

I’ve seen well over 6000’s hrs on a Yamaha MZ series motor with regular maintenance and the Fujisawa Gen head (stator/rotor) was also still going. Ya slip rings, brushes, bearings, spark plugs, oil changes become part of the maintenance realm but you have to keep in mind these aren’t industrial grade units.
These are consumer grade units not entirely meant for continuous use and abuse.

Running wide open under full load can certainly put stress on wear items. So keep an eye on those items.

 

[speedy2019]

I guess well known branded generators will cope much batter than not known branded generators with a full or near full load.. I dont think I would trust my generator running it at full load for a long as it was only cheap, plus its a 3100rpm screamer.. So I dont think it would cope well working it hard at that speed for a long time.

I see why fully loaded is more efficient because the engine has to maintain a certain speed, so your using more fuel then needed with having a light load, but saying that the resistance increases as you put more load on the generator, so thats going to use more fuel with the engine having to work harder?

 

[Derp]

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it. I feel like the Firman WH03242 will be fine for my needs. 3200w running using gas, 3000w on propane. Knowing it can support a temporary surge in demand up to 4,000w is quite a lot of room.

In the summer I'd have a 5000 btu AC maybe.
In winter I'd have a 1000w space hearter maybe.

For sure, fridge, freezer. I'd like the coffee maker and microwave on occasion. As well, we have no well pump or anything like that so we're pretty solid otherwise.

I like the idea of propane since it'd burn cleaner and is easier to store. I don't have a gas mower so storing gas is a bad idea. If I need it I can go buy a gas can and fill it up.

I still have to look into the wiring aspect, to be honest.

 

[Columbotrek]

Longevity aside; ICE engines run most efficiently when they operate at full open throttle. (high manifold pressure) This is because during the intake stroke, the engine pulls a higher vacuum against a closed throttle which requires more energy. That and greater friction surface areas and cylinder displacement which have A/F ratio requirements. An example could be operating a 10HP engine at an output of 10HP vs a 50HP engine at 10HP. Like in everything designed, tradeoffs need to be considered. I think your 3KW expectations are on the low side unless you plan to tightly manage your appliances such that the combined load does not exceed your capacity which it will unless you are good at house nanny.

 

[Derp]

I'm a pretty good house nanny so I think this will do well as an emergency generator. I'm not looking for much other than the essentials.

Update: I pulled the trigger. Costco has an amazing deal right now for $200 off bringing this generator to $799 shipped.

https://www.costco.ca/firman-4000w-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.4000027251.html

 

[Robh]

You did fine. There's nothing wrong with the Firman.

There is no reason to buy an frame inverter generator if money isn't a factor.