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That's great! You may be on to something. See if you can find a pattern that will make starting much less of a struggle.
 

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I'll have to listen for that click the next time I run it. Because I haven't found a reason why it starts right up sometimes and not others. Are you planning on putting in the iridium plug soon, to see if that helps the starting also?

BTW where did you get your magnetic dipstick?
 

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Disconnected hose from gen and smelled it. No propane smell at all.
Disconnected regulator from propane tank. Expected a pressure release sound but didn't hear (or smell) anything.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the OPD valve (assuming yours is equipped)?

Interesting that your OEM Torch plug was at .022 gap. That actually works but isn't per manual specs. I would use the same .022 gap for the NGK Iridium also.
Sounds like you are making good progress! Scope pics would be nice if you can get them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
I wonder if that has anything to do with the OPD valve (assuming yours is equipped)?

Interesting that your OEM Torch plug was at .022 gap. That actually works but isn't per manual specs. I would use the same .022 gap for the NGK Iridium also.
Sounds like you are making good progress! Scope pics would be nice if you can get them.
Yep, your link appears to be what's going on. Plunger inside OPD valve isn't getting depressed unless hand-tightened regulator attachment knob is really tight. May be an O-ring or seal that needs to compress?? May be related to cold weather?? Need to play around with it some more. Weather isn't cooperating today.

The plug gap works OK so far. Want to establish a baseline with the Torch plug to evaluate how much improvement there is with the NGK. Also need to experiment some more with regulator attachment fitting before changing any variables.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I'll have to listen for that click the next time I run it. Because I haven't found a reason why it starts right up sometimes and not others.

BTW where did you get your magnetic dipstick?

Thinking back, I'm not 100% sure when click sound occurred. May have been when tightening hand fitting or when valve was opened, but definitely remember a click sound on second attempt. It's supposed to rain all day here, so probably won't get a chance to play around with it until tomorrow.

Got magnetic dipstick here: It's a bit pricey but built like a tank.
 

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Thinking back, I'm not 100% sure when click sound occurred. May have been when tightening hand fitting or when valve was opened, but definitely remember a click sound on second attempt. It's supposed to rain all day here, so probably won't get a chance to play around with it until tomorrow.

Got magnetic dipstick here: It's a bit pricey but built like a tank.
Thank you, much appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Here's the dipstick after initial 30 mins of break-in. Not much metal at all, but that's a good thing. Pulled it again after 1.5 hrs and it looked the same. If I wipe it with a white paper towel, then shine a bright light on the towel, I can see a few very very small sparkles.

Something that seems odd to me is the RPM's were higher than I had anticipated for an inverter genset. RPM's never drop below 3800 in Eco mode. Found on the dataplate where it says RPM= 4800. Since that's exactly what I read with Eco mode off, I'm pretty sure i have the tach set up correctly now. That fact that it only burns 0.1 gal/hr while producing ~450+ watts and spinning at 3800 RPM just amazes me.
Gadget Office equipment Cable Font Electronic component


Curious if anyone knows what RPM range the Honda's and Yammy's use on their comparably sized inverters.
 

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The Yamaha is a better comparison as it’s also a 80cc engine. The Honda eu2000 was 100cc and the eu2200 is 120cc The little 80cc engines rev higher to have enough power to make their power rating. Take the power rating with a grain of salt. The numbers are inflated a bit.

My eu2200 revs out to 4500 under max surge conditions and is at 3200rpms with no load, eco on. My eu1000 has a 50cc engine and maxes out at 5000rpm no load eco on is 4300.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
Finished-up the break-in today and changed the oil. Magnetic dipstick looked great. Oil turned to a light shade of gray. I had left the propane regulator attached to propane tank and disconnected at front panel of inverter last time I used it. Did not disturb connection of regulator to tank. Re-connected hose to inverter and set to Choke. Did 6 rope pulls, didn't sound like it wanted to fire. Switch to Run (propane) and it started on first pull. Still got some experimentation to do.

Captured some scope traces with no load, a 4 amp load and a 8 amp load. Load was either one or two 500-watt work lights.

Nature Organism Font World Screenshot
Slope Rectangle Font Line Screenshot


^^^^ Above is zero load ^^^^



Organism World Font Screenshot Slope
Slope Rectangle Font Line Screenshot


^^^^ Above is with 4 amp load ^^^^




Nature Organism Font Screenshot Slope
Slope Rectangle Font Line Screenshot


^^^^ Above is with 8 amp load^^^^

For grins I captured some scope traces with my old Yamaha YG6600DE open frame (1999 model). Not beautiful, but good enough for a back-up genset. See below:


Water Slope Organism Rectangle Font


^^^^ Above is with zero load ^^^^


Nature Organism Slope Font Line


^^^^ Above is with 8 amp load ^^^^
 

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Nice.

I am inclined to think that people having trouble starting this generator from propane is doing something wrong, something which I can't put my finger on. But you seem to be handling it quite well. Assuming that your propane plumbing is all sorted out and everything is tight, try reducing the priming pulls from 6 to 3 and see if you can still start it on the first pull.

Very nice waveforms! To be fair, the output from the Yamaha is pretty decent as well.

Propane is such a clean-burning gas that it shouldn't foul up the plug like gasoline often does. That said, it's a good indication if the engine starts to burn oil.
 

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Finished-up the break-in today and changed the oil. Magnetic dipstick looked great. Oil turned a shade of light shade of gray. I had left the propane regulator attached to propane tank and disconnected at front panel of inverter last time I used it. Did not disturb connection of regulator to tank. Re-connected hose to inverter and set to Choke. Did 6 rope pulls, didn't sound like it wanted to fire. Switch to Run (propane) and it started on first pull. Still got some experimentation to do.

Captured some scope traces with no load, a 4 amp load and a 8 amp load. Load was either one or two 500-watt work lights.

View attachment 10888 View attachment 10889

^^^^ Above is zero load ^^^^



View attachment 10890 View attachment 10891

^^^^ Above is with 4 amp load ^^^^




View attachment 10892 View attachment 10893

^^^^ Above is with 8 amp load^^^^

For grins I captured some scope traces with my old Yamaha YG6600DE open frame (1999 model). Not beautiful, but good enough for a back-up genset. See below:


View attachment 10895

^^^^ Above is with zero load ^^^^


View attachment 10896

^^^^ Above is with 8 amp load ^^^^
Great scope readings with load numbers.

It would be a nice addition to the waveform thread.
 

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Picked up my Champion 2000W dual fuel inverter generator last week from Tractor Supply. First thing I did was to replace the Torch spark plug with an NGK. Auto Zone matched it up with BPR6HS. Also installed a magnet oil dipstick from Amazon. After a short run of two hours, changed the oil. The dipstick picked up allot of metal particles and the oil looked soupy, that light shade of gray. The oil looked better after running another three hours. And, once again, changed the oil without any particles on the dipstick.

Have only run the generator on propane so far and did take some time and a few magic words for it to start. Only used a light bulb for a small load. 'Tis quieter than some generators of its size. Gonna pick up an NGK Iridium plug and keep it on hand.

Thanks, zz28zz, for the scope traces.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Nice day today (70 degs) so I did some more propane start-up troubleshooting. Found that the propane tank connection indeed does have to be tighter than I imagined it should be. With a good connection at propane tank, 3 healthy pulls on Choke then switch to run, starts almost every time on first pull.

The click sound mentioned prev is not consistent. I could initially hear the click when tank valve was opened, but later sound went away. If you have a really quiet environment, you can attach regulator to tank but not tight, open tank valve all the way (should not flow from tank yet), slowly tighten the attachment fitting. After it's seems snug, keep tightening until you hear a very faint "pssst" sound. This indicates the plunger has opened in the tank valve. Now 3 pulls on choke, switch to run and give it a good pull. Mine starts every time on first or second pull.

After eng is warm, if shut down by closing the propane tank valve, you will need to go thru a few Choke pulls to re-prime system even if eng is already warm. If shutdown via the rotary knob, it can be restarted by going directly to Run. If it sits too long, it will need the Choke pulls again.

Also did a 20 min run at 1500W (max continuous= 1640W on propane ). Voltage remained above 119V and was very stable. Eng speed reached 4430RPM (in Eco mode). Think it's a keeper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Picked up my Champion 2000W dual fuel inverter generator last week from Tractor Supply. First thing I did was to replace the Torch spark plug with an NGK. Auto Zone matched it up with BPR6HS. Also installed a magnet oil dipstick from Amazon. After a short run of two hours, changed the oil. The dipstick picked up allot of metal particles and the oil looked soupy, that light shade of gray. The oil looked better after running another three hours. And, once again, changed the oil without any particles on the dipstick.

Have only run the generator on propane so far and did take some time and a few magic words for it to start. Only used a light bulb for a small load. 'Tis quieter than some generators of its size. Gonna pick up an NGK Iridium plug and keep it on hand.

Thanks, zz28zz, for the scope traces.
My experience, with mainly car engs, is that you want to build up cyl press as soon as eng is up to temp. Cyl press is needed to seat the rings. Idling too long or running with too small of a load during break-in can glaze the cyl walls and rings won't seat. Champion recommends varying load (up to 1/2 power) and keep RPMs from staying at one speed for too long during break-in. Loading with between 4 and 8 amps should increase RPMs a little. Switching in and out of Eco mode will really make RPMs change.
 

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My experience, with mainly car engs, is that you want to build up cyl press as soon as eng is up to temp. Cyl press is needed to seat the rings. Idling too long or running with too small of a load during break-in can glaze the cyl walls and rings won't seat. Champion recommends varying load (up to 1/2 power) and keep RPMs from staying at one speed for too long during break-in. Loading with between 4 and 8 amps should increase RPMs a little. Switching in and out of Eco mode will really make RPMs change.
This is true. You'll want the RPM and load all over the place as much as possible, but within limits.

This is something conventional single-speed generators can't achieve. The most you can do in this case is to vary the load.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The Champion manual also mentioned that varying the load also thermal cycles the stator windings. Not sure why that's needed. Maybe one of the generator gurus knows why that's beneficial?
 
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