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Discussion Starter #41
It never shut down due to low oil, but I had to add about 1.5 oz to get it to start and run a bit, for an oil change.

I pulled the plug and it was black, including the threads. I scraped it off and put it back in. Worked good.

I finally got to see a little into the plug hole and pulled the cylinder to TDC. It looked like a rough black surface.

The technician at Honda of the Ozarks swapped out the 10 mm bolt for the oil drain, and replaced it with a 12 mm bolt. I'll have to remember to get another 10 mm bolt.

I have some Motor Kote oil additive that I intend to put in, tomorrow. Not sure it will do any good, but I have it.

It blew a good puff of black smoke, followed by the blue-white stream of smoke... Not as puffy as it was before the oil change.
 

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Seafoam is not the enemy, I’m not sure how you used it previously. You are wasting your time hoping for consumption improvements with gasoline additives.

You need to soak the top end with seafoam period. TDC, fill the cylinder to the top and let it soak. It will loosen carbon in the combustion chamber plus the piston and rings. RINGS, are the most important component that needs addressing. Depending on how quickly it drains out of the top of the motor into the oil, you can fill it again after a couple hours and wait till morning to drain the crankcase and fill with fresh oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Seafoam is not the enemy, I’m not sure how you used it previously. You are wasting your time hoping for consumption improvements with gasoline additives.

You need to soak the top end with seafoam period. TDC, fill the cylinder to the top and let it soak. It will loosen carbon in the combustion chamber plus the piston and rings. RINGS, are the most important component that needs addressing. Depending on how quickly it drains out of the top of the motor into the oil, you can fill it again after a couple hours and wait till morning to drain the crankcase and fill with fresh oil.
Hi, drmerdp.

I may have gotten too liberal with the Sea Foam, in the other motor. All I know is what the mechanic said he found, placing the blame on the Sea Foam. He seemed to not like that stuff very much.

I plan to add about an ounce of Sea Foam to the spark plug hole, some time this week, depending on rain and temperatures. I am a little concerned about positioning the cylinder at TDC, because it is so easy to move.

I'm encouraged that it ran about 8.5 hours and took .5 oz of Castrol. I did not add any Motor Kote.

There was a small puff of dark smoke, not much of anything else... ie: no white-blue smoke.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Getting the cylinder head to the top, was a little rougher today. The other day it was almost too easy.

After 3 hours soaking in seafoam, it appeared to have not leaked down much. It had been on the threads and they were clean, but the level looked to be just below the threads.

It was hard to tell in the dark, with light snow falling and I was trying to block it from hitting anything open.

I added more, to near the top of the threads, then inserted the plug to get more seafoam on those threads.

Hopefully, that had a positive affect in putting a little light pressure on the seafoam, to press it deeper. Then, I dipped a paper towel in to absorb some of it.

Seemed to be holding the fluid level. I saw no indication that the level was dropping, after adding more seafoam.

Total soak time was about 8 to 8.5 hours. The level had dropped, but I could not tell how much.

I drained then filled the oil. Ran for 5 or 6 minutes.
Then changed the oil, again. Blew mostly blue-white smoke for a bit, before it cleared up.

Depending on what I see in the plug hole, in the next day or 2, I'll repeat this exercise, with more soak time.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I would not imagine the breather flapper is bad. Maybe plugged due to oil blowing by the rings.?
I don't know, but I would like to avoid any tear down, if possible.

She ran about 7.5 hours.
Oil level looked good, so I did not add more.

It was hard to tell, but I think it may have used a little.

Then, again, I have to wonder if there were air pockets when I changed the oil.

Or, whether the slight apparent consumption was due to shrinkage while shut down in low temps, around 30*.

Not feeling too energetic, so will repeat the soaking in a day or 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Soaked in Sea Foam - 13 hours. Changed oil, cycled cylinder 3 or 4 times, ran 7 minutes, changed oil again.

Still running after 10 hours. I turned Eco mode on at 50 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
When I added the Sea Foam to start the 13 hour soak, I noticed some bubbling, as it filled the voids. I added more, maybe a half oz, after about 8 or 9 hours.

I just added about .5 oz oil.

She blew a puff of black smoke, then she blew clear.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
She ran 11 hours, ran out of gas and took 1 oz of oil.

Consumption does not seem to be improving.

I'm wondering if it might be advisable to use some decarbonizer in the same fashion as I've been using Sea Foam.?
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Low Oil Shut Down after 4 hr., 45 minutes.
Took 1.75 oz.

Not encouraging...

Could this indicate that the Sea Foam soak is working, but against a big build up of carbon...?
 

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what did the oil look like after the 11 hours of run right after the oil change??
what brand of oil? and wt?

I still think a full tear down is needed..
or at least look at the flapper for the pcv..

hum you might be able to look at the carb pcv vent tube and see if it is heavy with junk...
or maybe pull the air cleaner cover and see if there is oil from the crankcase in there..

crc marine stuff
https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-Engine-Tune-Up-and-Decarbonizer/33271379?
might be better??
I guess if I had to trust a spray I would use the crc..

is the oil black after the 11 hours of run time??

question
are you using oil on the foam filter?
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Is this gas cap vented.?

Ok, Paul. At $89 per hour, how long would it take to do a full tear down, clean up and put back together, plus parts,,, assuming the technician knew what he was doing.?

And I would have to find someone other than Honda of the Ozarks, that knows what he is doing, even if Honda accepts the job under warranty.

The oil was dark but I could not see the color that well. It is darker than it was, but there is less carbon on the magnetic dipstick, since switching to Castrol.

I have not applied any oil to the air filter.

I routed the crank case vent tube to a catch can, which has accumulated some oil, and maybe some water.

Still have to finish that process by capping the gas line vent. I'm not too concerned about the canister.

I'm also still a little under the weather, but you seem to be grasping at straws. What makes you think there might be a problem at the carb pcv vent tube or the air cleaner.?

Are the symptoms pointing to those items.?

Following up my Wednesday morning post #52 ... She took 1.75 oz oil on the low oil shutdown, after 4.75 hours.
She shutdown again, about 4 hours later.

I think it took another 1.75 oz oil on Wednesday night.

Thursday morning, it was hard to tell if she shutdown due to low oil or out of gas, after 8.75 hours. She ran with Eco mode off for 3 hr.

The trailer was parked on a little slope and she took 1.9 gallons of gas and 1.75 oz oil, tonight. There was a good puff of black smoke followed by a short, puffy stream of white-blue smoke.

Now, I'm worried. There is a sound that I do not recall - like a whirring sound. Not a high pitch or a low pitch.

So, I don't know what to expect now.
Still thinking about doing the cylinder head soak in Sea Foam, again.

I wonder how the CRC Engine Decarbonizer you linked to, would work as a cylinder head soak vs. Sea Foam.?
 

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I don't remember if this has been covered: is the head gasket ok? I had a Briggs OHV with a blown head gasket (between the combustion chamber and the valve gallery), which made it burn oil.
 

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Resistor, that oil consumption is not normal, and I don't believe that any oil or fuel additive is going to be a cure all.
I wish I had more substance to add. But sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. it's a duck. In other words, a mechanical issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I don't remember if this has been covered: is the head gasket ok? I had a Briggs OHV with a blown head gasket (between the combustion chamber and the valve gallery), which made it burn oil.
I would not know how to determine if the head gasket is ok.
I'm not going to open it up, since I'm not a mechanic.

I am dependent on the technician's skill and ability to communicate.

He said there was nothing wrong with what he saw as he earned the $133 I was charged for his service, by Honda of the Ozarks.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Resistor, that oil consumption is not normal, and I don't believe that any oil or fuel additive is going to be a cure all.
I wish I had more substance to add. But sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. it's a duck. In other words, a mechanical issue.
You are right, of course. I appreciate it.

It would seem that a carbon build up would be a mechanical issue which should be visible to the technician, if he knew what he was looking at.

I have absolutely no confidence in his qualifications or abilities.

So, I'm left with finding someone authorized by Honda, that knows what they are doing.

Or replacing the unit altogether, with a unit with the better motor.

Then, it becomes a question of cost to repair vs. cost of a replacement minus any residual value left in this one.
 

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Resistor, it's certainly possible carbon build-up was the root cause of the problem. A tear down and forensics would answer the Q.
Carbon deposits can, and have, scored metal parts. While I don't consider carbon a purely a mechanical issue, per se', damage from it certainly can be. And, thus, my comment about the additives.
 

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