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Good luck! I wouldn't expect valves being out of adjustment to cause burning oil, but maybe somehow? They can certainly cause other issues.

A blown head gasket, at least for some engines (Briggs OHV are one I can attest to) can cause burning oil.

You could attempt a simple leakdown test to see if you can hear air leaking from somewhere.

Glad you found the excess-oil level before running it more. It didn't smell like gas, did it? In some cases, something like a leaky carb needle valve can allow gas to run into the cylinder, and then the crankcase, raising the oil level. Is this an engine where you fill it through the dipstick hole? If so, it would beg the question of how on Earth it got over-filled that much.
 

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It’s great to have an hour meter for staying on top of maintenance , plus they double as a rpm gauge which is nice for reference.

~100 hours between changes is pretty much par for the course for heavy use machines, but it can have consequences especially if using basic oil that doesn’t have an additive package suited for small air cooled engines.

Having a bit more background, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have quite a bit of carbon build up. Carbon build up on the rings can cause performance issues. Including oil consumption....

I suggest a combustion chamber and piston ring decarboning. It’s a simple process and all you need is a small funnel and some sea foam.

Pull the starter rope lightly until you hit the compression stroke and remove the spark plug. Take a flashlight and look to see if the piston is at the top of its stroke. If not carefully pull the rope a bit more.

Next grab your funnel and fill the combustion chamber fully. Fluid should be visible on the spark plug threads.

Let it sit over night... the seafoam will soften and dissolve the hardened carbon deposits. By the next day the seafoam will have drained past the rings softening and dissolving any carbon there as well.

Reinstall the spark plug, and crank the engine over a few times with the ignition switch in the off position. This is to redistribute the engine oil that was washed away from the seafoam. The idea is to avoid a dry start. We want the cylinder wall and piston get oiled up before starting.

Start her up and get ready for a fair amount of smoke. Once the oil has a chance to warm up and all the smoke has cleared shut her back down and change the oil.
 

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when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the clean!

It’s great to have an hour meter for staying on top of maintenance , plus they double as a rpm gauge which is nice for reference.

~100 hours between changes is pretty much par for the course for heavy use machines, but it can have consequences especially if using basic oil that doesn’t have an additive package suited for small air cooled engines.

Having a bit more background, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have quite a bit of carbon build up. Carbon build up on the rings can cause performance issues. Including oil consumption....

I suggest a combustion chamber and piston ring decarboning. It’s a simple process and all you need is a small funnel and some sea foam.

Pull the starter rope lightly until you hit the compression stroke and remove the spark plug. Take a flashlight and look to see if the piston is at the top of its stroke. If not carefully pull the rope a bit more.

Next grab your funnel and fill the combustion chamber fully. Fluid should be visible on the spark plug threads.

Let it sit over night... the seafoam will soften and dissolve the hardened carbon deposits. By the next day the seafoam will have drained past the rings softening and dissolving any carbon there as well.

Reinstall the spark plug, and crank the engine over a few times with the ignition switch in the off position. This is to redistribute the engine oil that was washed away from the seafoam. The idea is to avoid a dry start. We want the cylinder wall and piston get oiled up before starting.

Start her up and get ready for a fair amount of smoke. Once the oil has a chance to warm up and all the smoke has cleared shut her back down and change the oil.
when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the soak clean!
before you run!!
the crank case could be full of seafoam!! or weak oil!!
then total drain crank case then refill with fresh good 10-30 castrol or good synthetic 10-30

you are better off with a tear down than to clean this way.
ultrasonic the head and piston clean...
and 90% of the time if it is coked up real bad you are looking at a piston and ring job.

a look in the spark plug hole should let you see what is up..
if it looks chunky and flakey then plan a tear down for a super clean.

and a big note this should still be under honda warranty!!
I would put in a call to north american honda asap!!
warranty is 2-3 years for home owners!

I have a few links for gen service tools and hour meters over on the honda service forum
https://hondagenerator.groups.io
join up if you have not already.
 

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when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the soak clean!
before you run!!
the crank case could be full of seafoam!! or weak oil!!
then total drain crank case then refill with fresh good 10-30 castrol or good synthetic 10-30

you are better off with a tear down than to clean this way.
ultrasonic the head and piston clean...
and 90% of the time if it is coked up real bad you are looking at a piston and ring job.

a look in the spark plug hole should let you see what is up..
if it looks chunky and flakey then plan a tear down for a super clean.

and a big note this should still be under honda warranty!!
I would put in a call to north american honda asap!!
warranty is 2-3 years for home owners!

I have a few links for gen service tools and hour meters over on the honda service forum
https://hondagenerator.groups.io
join up if you have not already.
He needs to still confirm and quantify how much oil he is burning after their “repair”.

Agreed WARRENTY, but if things don’t work for any reason... A tear down to R&R rings is an excessive next move.

Total cc volume at TDC is ~1oz , yes it will be in the oil but that’s a negligible quantity for the short time to burn off residuals and warm up the oil. Plus the sea foam will further clean up additional coking in the crankcase. 2-3 minutes tops...

First things first, how much oil Is he still burning?
 

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The engine in this generator is a GC, Honda's cheapest engine which is EPA durability rated at 125 hours, and does not have a cast iron cylinder liner. Honda will not give it a 3 yr commercial warranty due to this. It sounds like your usage, hours per day etc, would be considered commercial. the cylinder is probably getting worn and you are getting blow by which is why you are going through oil. Another thing to consider is if it is being run on eco throttle full time you are probably getting carbon build up on the valve stem and seat area which could be another reason for burning oil. Get a decarbonizer for your fuel and run with eco throttle off for a few tanks and see if it improves. Honda had that issue with the EU2000i when only run on eco.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Good luck! I wouldn't expect valves being out of adjustment to cause burning oil, but maybe somehow? They can certainly cause other issues.

A blown head gasket, at least for some engines (Briggs OHV are one I can attest to) can cause burning oil.

You could attempt a simple leakdown test to see if you can hear air leaking from somewhere.

Glad you found the excess-oil level before running it more. It didn't smell like gas, did it? In some cases, something like a leaky carb needle valve can allow gas to run into the cylinder, and then the crankcase, raising the oil level. Is this an engine where you fill it through the dipstick hole? If so, it would beg the question of how on Earth it got over-filled that much.
The guy said there was no indication that it was burning oil. More like blowing it out with the exhaust.

Temps about 13* when I started up.
There was smoke coming from the exhaust for a minute or so, as I have come to expect.
Never was sure if it was oil, moisture or something else.

It ran a steady 10 hours.. never shut down.
I just added a couple of ounces of oil.
Used almost 1.5 gallons of gas.

I did not notice any smell of gas when I cleaed up the oil that spilled out, nor when I removed the excess from the reservoir.

I agree: it begs the question of how on Earth it got over-filled that much.

Kinda makes me think poorly of that stupid technician and Honda of the Ozarks. I can't have any confidence in either of them, as much as I would like to.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the soak clean!
before you run!!
the crank case could be full of seafoam!! or weak oil!!
then total drain crank case then refill with fresh good 10-30 castrol or good synthetic 10-30

you are better off with a tear down than to clean this way.
ultrasonic the head and piston clean...
and 90% of the time if it is coked up real bad you are looking at a piston and ring job.

a look in the spark plug hole should let you see what is up..
if it looks chunky and flakey then plan a tear down for a super clean.

and a big note this should still be under honda warranty!!
I would put in a call to north american honda asap!!
warranty is 2-3 years for home owners!

I have a few links for gen service tools and hour meters over on the honda service forum
https://hondagenerator.groups.io
join up if you have not already.
The ultrasonic cleaning sounds like a major job.
I'm hoping to avoid a big expense in dealing with this problem.

I would not expect carbon build up to be covered by the warranty, as that would be a maintenance issue.

But a piston and ring job would sound like a warranty issue, unless they can point to neglect in maintenance.

I don't know, other than what everyone is saying, here.

Getting the spark plug out is easy enough.
Looks as if I need to do that again, just to see what it looks like.

At some point, it would pay to sell this one and get a new one, as was suggested earlier.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
He needs to still confirm and quantify how much oil he is burning after their “repair”.

Agreed WARRENTY, but if things don’t work for any reason... A tear down to R&R rings is an excessive next move.

Total cc volume at TDC is ~1oz , yes it will be in the oil but that’s a negligible quantity for the short time to burn off residuals and warm up the oil. Plus the sea foam will further clean up additional coking in the crankcase. 2-3 minutes tops...

First things first, how much oil Is he still burning?
There is that confidence thing,, again.

They guy said there no other problems...
But, would he recognize carbon build up, if he saw it.?
I have my doubts.

I've had difficulty trying to look into the spark plug hole. It would require disconnecting more lines, so more time and complexity.

Buzzsaw's suggestion to use a decarbonizer in the gas, with eco throttle off, sounds appealing.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
The engine in this generator is a GC, Honda's cheapest engine which is EPA durability rated at 125 hours, and does not have a cast iron cylinder liner. Honda will not give it a 3 yr commercial warranty due to this. It sounds like your usage, hours per day etc, would be considered commercial. the cylinder is probably getting worn and you are getting blow by which is why you are going through oil. Another thing to consider is if it is being run on eco throttle full time you are probably getting carbon build up on the valve stem and seat area which could be another reason for burning oil. Get a decarbonizer for your fuel and run with eco throttle off for a few tanks and see if it improves. Honda had that issue with the EU2000i when only run on eco.
Thank you for that insight. I've used some marvel mystery oil a couple of times, but could not see any improvement,

I'll look for some decarbonizer, tonight or tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
The unit ran 11 hours, the last hour of which had the heaviest load of about 1,250 watts.

It shut off when I bumped it to rotate the switch closer to the dog house door.
No need to turn the switch off.

Before, there were a couple of times it shut down just by reducing the load.

Look like it will require another couple of ounces of oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Saturday night, the 15th, I added about 2.5 ounces of oil.
Then, I added some decarbonizer.

When I pulled the cord, a big cloud of smoke billowed out for a couple of minutes.
I failed to turn off the eco mode, so it ran the full 10 hours that way.

Now, Sunday night, I just added 1.5 ounces of oil and some more decarbonizer. Then, turned off eco mode.

There was a puff of smoke.

So, it looks like a big improvement on the first run.

It is purring smoothly, right now.
Be real interesting to see if there is less oil consumption.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
After running 11 hours, it took 1 ounce of oil and I continued with the decarbonizer. I turned eco mode on, after 4 hours run time.

Last night, I started up in the dark. If there was visible exhaust after the initial puff of smoke, I could not see it.

Tonight, when I started up with eco mode off, a big, black puff of smoke blew out, followed by a nearly white stream of smoke that lasted a minute or 2. Then, no visible exhaust.

That is encouraging to me, again.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
so Resistor what brand of decarbonizer did you settle on?
I was anxious to get started on the decarbonizer, so I stopped in at Walmart around midnight. After looking at their offerings, I got Star Tron in 8 oz. for $5.

I didn't know one from the other, so I got this one because I could calculate the amount I needed for 2 gallons of gas, in my head.

So, I been adding .20 ml ?, or around 75% to 80% of an ounce. I think I'll put some in my gas tank after I run out some gas. I added a little more than that, tonight.

I turned on the eco mode, after 3 hours.
It ran out of gas after 10 hours, 45 minutes. It was loafing as it ran out.

It took a little over 2 oz. oil, tonight.
I'm wondering if that increase was due to the loafing, as it ran out of gas.?

When I started up tonight, the eco mode was still on.
There was no clouds, puffs or anything else to see.
Then, I turned eco mode off and some blue smoke streamed out for a minute or so.

I'll likely turn eco mode on after 2 or 3 hours.
 

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I was anxious to get started on the decarbonizer, so I stopped in at Walmart around midnight. After looking at their offerings, I got Star Tron in 8 oz. for $5.
.
try this stuff
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sea-Foam-Motor-Treatment/16664932?
put it in the gasoline and a bit in the engine oil.
it works well here in the shop.
I have been using this stuff as well as stabile in the gasoline for over 30 years...
as long as you use it all of the time, I have yet to have any issues.

an one oz in the oil every oil change, and an one oz per gallon in the gasoline is what I use on the seafoam.

then on the stabile 6 oz per 5 gallons for long term storage for a heavy dose.

and for old gear full of junk like what you have with issues I run 2 oz per gallon of gasoline in each tank.
and change the spark plug every week with the oil change.
and use a bore camera to see how it is progressing.

during this mode till it is all clean I would leave the gen at high speed or eco in the off setting.

do you have the option of running on natural gas or propane in your area??
propane burns clean, and they make kits for conversion on most honda gen sets now.
and the good thing on propane it never goes bad during long term storage!

in most areas of the country they will come to your location and fill if you have 100 lb tanks.
and they just charge tank rental if you are on a plan.
there are auto switch over valves for 2 tank setups as well.

and the sweet thing is as there is less trash in the combustion.
you can go longer between oil changes!!
so if you are at 100 hours on an oil change on gasoline I have seen them with good synthetic oil go 500 hours with a magnetic dip stick on the oil changes! or longer!!
it all depends on the air in your location.. how clean it is etc.
this time of the year in the mid west, if it is not on a dusty site, 500 to 800 hours on oil change.
but check it every 2 days for level.
and change it if it starts to use a bit.

hard on your older system or longer run time...
it really needs to be rebuilt at this point..
just to get back to zero trash and zero wear.

price an replacement engine for the gen..
I have a link for the parts at poust usa
click on the parts fish banner at the bottom and use the coupon code.
it will go right to the honda generator section of parts fish.

I make the basic parts as
CYLINDER ASSY.
12000-Z8C-D00
RING SET, PISTON (STD) (TEIKOKU)
13010-Z0Y-014
PISTON
13101-Z8C-900
PIN, PISTON
13111-Z8D-000
ROD ASSY., CONNECTING
13200-Z0Y-010
2)CLIP, PISTON PIN (13MM)
90551-ZE0-000
and a price on just the basic parts at
100.00
I would also do
BELT, TIMING (84HU6 G-200)
14400-Z8B-003
COVER ASSY., CRANKCASE
11300-Z8C-D00
for an extra 47.71
so $150.00 in parts
plus some honda bond for the case seal.
depending on how the cam parts look and check out.
change out on this would take and afternoon in a good shop.
so 6 to 8 hours of time.
if you are handy this is not that bad of parts swap out.
at a repair shop...
it all depends on the rate they bill at!!
some are at $125 per hour now!! WOW!!:tango_face_surprise
so 8 hours at $125 is 1000.00! plus $150 parts at cost! $1200.00 …

the time is the big thing!!:tango_face_grin:

pm let me know if you need an address.
I am only 100 bucks on ups or fedex away each way.

or just buy a new unit for $1030.00 plus shipping. northern has them new for that. some times they have free shipping.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200669084_200669084?
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Thanks, Paul.

I had another little motor that had a problem that seemed to be fixed by Sea Foam.

But the problems continued. The symptoms were consistent with lack of air.

A small motor repairman told me that Sea Foam gummed up the works and created bigger problems. It even plugged up the spark arrestor.

I tried to analyze the cost of propane and natural gas. It seemed to be not worth the effort, given the issues that go with alternatives. I asked others about their experience, and they agreed. Some had penciled it out pretty well.

If this one peters out or costs too much, I may swap out a better motor or upgrade with a new generator with the other motor. We'll see.

I turned Eco Mode on after about 4 hours.
She ran 10 hours then shut off due to low oil.

I added a little over 2 oz. of Castrol on your recommendation, thinking that the Honda oil might have reduced oil consumption and hoping the same with Castrol.

When I pulled the cord, there was a good, black puff of smoke followed by a stream of white or light blue smoke, for a minute or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
so what is your oil change hours?
are you every 100 or 200 hours?
That's right, as I look at it every day and haphazardly remember to do it.

It took 2/3 ounces of oil, tonight. I also added a little more Star Tron to the gas.

There was a smaller puff of black smoke followed by a brief interlude, then the white-blue smoke was noticeably heavier than before. That lasted less than a minute.

So I'm encouraged, again.
 

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Thanks, Paul.

I had another little motor that had a problem that seemed to be fixed by Sea Foam.

But the problems continued. The symptoms were consistent with lack of air.

A small motor repairman told me that Sea Foam gummed up the works and created bigger problems. It even plugged up the spark arrestor.

I tried to analyze the cost of propane and natural gas. It seemed to be not worth the effort, given the issues that go with alternatives. I asked others about their experience, and they agreed. Some had penciled it out pretty well.

If this one peters out or costs too much, I may swap out a better motor or upgrade with a new generator with the other motor. We'll see.

I turned Eco Mode on after about 4 hours.
She ran 10 hours then shut off due to low oil.

I added a little over 2 oz. of Castrol on your recommendation, thinking that the Honda oil might have reduced oil consumption and hoping the same with Castrol.

When I pulled the cord, there was a good, black puff of smoke followed by a stream of white or light blue smoke, for a minute or so.
that brings up a good point!!
remove the spark arrestor when doing this kind of repair clean!
and save it for when you might be in a wooded area camping...
all the spark arrestor does is keeps the hot ash from starting a fire...
so if you are in a place like a drive way with no combustibles near the run area.
it is not an issue to leave it off the gen set.

yea that is my next thing to remove on my gens...
just another thing to cork up and cause issues...

note: never run a gen in a wooded area campground with this off the gen!!
so bag it and tag it for future use.

and the other thing to bring up is the trash from the engine is caking up in the muffler..
so after the engine is clean replace the muffler or clean the inside of the muffler...
depending how expensive your gens muffler is for the model of gen you are working on.

muffler for this gen $20.52
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/18310-z43-b30/muffler

gasket for the muffler $1.00
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/18381-z43-b30/gasket-muffler

muffler for this setup is low cost...
so get a new muffler unit on the way.

did you find a good low cost bore scope yet??
you need to see inside the spark plug hole to see how clean things are..

if you are not needing power for a couple of days
you can always pull the spark plug and run the piston to top dead center and fill the spark plug hole full of good solvent.
to help break up the trash in side...
use a small dia blow gun inside the spark hold to blow things loose as well..
that soaking will help on the flaking stuff and the blow gun will get it loose..
repeat this several times... soak and flush...

and after you are done with the clean.
remember to change the oil before starting the engine.
and use a top cylinder lube spray to help lube the rings as they will be dry after the clean.

it is still best to do a full tear down...
but if you are not setup for the correct repair the flush will get you a bit cleaner..

I am still thinking the oil rings could be full of trash...
and even to the other rings as well..
and the ring end gap could be full of stuff..

yea get the spark arrestor out and at least clean it every other oil change...
honda calls for it to be cleaned in the oil service...
just like the air filter...

after all the gen needs to breath to work right!
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Sea Foam gummed up all the works from front to back, in the other motor, according to the technician.

So I'm avoiding it altogether, in this one.

I do not have a bore scope.I keep thinking about removing the plug again, but since it still starts easily on the first or second pull, I don't think the plug is a problem. I'll be more motivated with warmer temperatures.

Are you saying the Star Tron won't touch some of the carbon build up? I was hoping that the decarbonizer would remove all of it.

What other trash could be in it?

I do use it every day. Makes me wonder how long it will last, at the rate I'm running it.

I'm not a mechanic. I'll have to get it fixed or replace it, when it wears out.

The spark arrestor blew out, somewhere along the way.

It ran 8 or 9 hours, most with Eco off, before running out of gas. I added almost 2 ounces of Castrol and continued with the decarbonizer. Temps dropped below 15* for a bit, over night, but I don't know if that would have made any difference in oil consumption.

This was not encouraging as I was hoping to see a steady improvement in consumption with Castrol. Makes me wonder if Honda oil really is the way to go.

When I pulled the cord, there was another good puff of black smoke, followed by a billowy stream of white-blue smoke.
 
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