Power Equipment Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
When this feature was announced I was curious what additional costs would be involved for the ATS, inverter, etc. that has now been answered. " This system consists of an inverter, transfer switch and battery, and will be sold through Sunrun for $3,895, with installation costs dependent on your personal home setup "

Not sure where the demand would be for these as the battery bank would still require charging, evidently Ford sees one though.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
Not sure where the demand would be for these as the battery bank would still require charging, evidently Ford sees one though.
As the article states, "the F-150 Lightning’s 9.6 kW of Intelligent Backup Power can provide full-home power for up to three days on a full charge of battery."

So, it would be really handy in the event of an outage that was only a few days. But, if you couple the pickup with a home solar system, then you really have the best of both worlds...an emergency power source and a recharge for the pickup using the sun. Sweet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,311 Posts
if it was a toyota i would buy one.
not so much on the ford electrics yet....
ford is too young in the electric motors yet...
give them time to prove out on the battery tech....
cool concept...
if it was a 4 cyl hybrid with plug in charge... then it might be a viable option...
think cost per hour to run on gasoline for a charge...
and then cost per mile...
50 cents per mile at life of the car or truck....
that is 160K miles.... just to break even...

for me a eu7000is gen set makes more sense...
5k in dollars for the gen as trifuel.
so about a dollar per watt invested..
and if you needed 10kw use 2 of the eu7000is in parallel.

the issue for me is if you need to get provisions with the truck..
you do not have the gen at the home site...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
These numbers seem overly optimistic.
9600 watts X 72 hours= 691,200 watt/hrs.

A brief search finds the batt capacity to be ~120 kw/hrs for the std version.
About 162 kw/hrs for extended range batt. What Is The Battery Capacity Of Ford F-150 Lightning?

This assumes batt still has100% of its capacity and it's 100% charged when needed. Also assuming 100% efficiency at converting DC to AC and being OK to completely exhaust the batt (which it's not).
Using these overly optimistic numbers:
162,000 watt/hrs divided by 9600 watts= ~17 hrs of full output.

Using more realistic values:
1. Assuming batt has 90% of its original capacity.
2. Assuming batt is 90% charged.
3. Assuming inverter efficiency is 95%
4. Assuming you only take 75% of the capacity so truck would still be usable.

De-rating to real world would be:
17 hrs times 0.9= 15.3 hrs
15.3 hrs times 0.9= 13.7 hrs
13.7 hrs times 0.95= 13 hrs
13 hrs times 0.75= 9.75 hrs

I'm coming up with ~10 hrs of usage at 9.6kW.
What went wrong??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Power goes out so I use my truck to power the house. The truck battery goes flat doing that. Now the house is dark and the truck is dead in the garage until the power comes back on and it's battery re-charges. Seems like up s**t Creek without a paddle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Power goes out so I use my truck to power the house. The truck battery goes flat doing that. Now the house is dark and the truck is dead in the garage until the power comes back on and it's battery re-charges. Seems like up s**t Creek without a paddle.
But the Ford enthusiasts have "the most popular pickup in the US" (or what ever they say in that AD on TV) also powering the house during outages. Hey, whatever they need to say to explain to "the one who must be obeyed" a.k.a. the wife, why they need the F-150 Lightning. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Coincidentally, just saw this "Additionally, a pilot program for the EV pickup aims to explore how it might be able to feed power back to the grid during blackouts, and its Intelligent Range feature takes the range anxiety out of towing, too "

Gee, "Ford Authority" Gotta be valid stuff, huh? zz, obviously Ford Authority uses different rules than you do. Excellent work up and very valid "realistic" and "derating" numbers BTW.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
Power goes out so I use my truck to power the house. The truck battery goes flat doing that. Now the house is dark and the truck is dead in the garage until the power comes back on and it's battery re-charges. Seems like up s**t Creek without a paddle.
I know 100% of the people who buy EV's won't use, or have, this feature connected to their house. But imagine that world where millions of electric cars decided to start charging at once when the power returns. o_O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
549 Posts
I'm coming up with ~10 hrs of usage at 9.6kW.
What went wrong??
Ford rates their truck powering a house at 30kWh/day which is realistic for a home.

See note #9: "When home is properly equipped, and home transfer switch disconnects home from the grid. Based on 30 kWh use per day using the F-150 Lightning with the extended-range battery. Your results may vary depending on energy usage. Rationing power assumes limiting the number of devices and turning the truck off when not needed."
F-150 Lightning | Ford Media Center
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Ah yes, the ol footnote disclaimer. "When home is properly equipped".

Orig link said "The F-150 Lightning’s 9.6 kW of Intelligent Backup Power can provide full-home power for up to three days on a full charge of battery." Full-home power wasn't really defined very well.

I agree a lot of homes could get by with 30kW/day. However, if your all elec in winter or need A/C in summer (maybe a small win unit), that's a problem. No well pumps either.

Anyone see the video where they plug the trucks inverter output into the charging port of the truck and claim it will be fully charged in 3 days? :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
As the article states, "the F-150 Lightning’s 9.6 kW of Intelligent Backup Power can provide full-home power for up to three days on a full charge of battery."

So, it would be really handy in the event of an outage that was only a few days. But, if you couple the pickup with a home solar system, then you really have the best of both worlds...an emergency power source and a recharge for the pickup using the sun. Sweet!
I can see the appeal. We have mostly short duration outages and more than one vehicle so battery size and tying up the truck wouldn't usually be an issue for us. Our portable generator needs some setup work before we can hook up so I try to hold off for a couple hours until the rest of the family complains enough. Otherwise the lights often come back on shortly after I get the gen going. If we had this Ford Lightning I wouldn't hesitate to hook it up right away. But I don't need a full size pickup. I'll wait until they come out with something smaller. (Ford Firefly?) If we really do get to the point where combustion engines are basically prohibited, at least we have a consolation prize: "I can power my house with it".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Seems like a stellar idea. Honestly guys, when's the last time you had an outage that lasted more than 24hrs? If you ration your usage like you would a small genny the truck battery is going to outlast the meager fuel supply most people have on hand to power a genny.

Also, the "propower" whatever thing the hybrids do is also pretty cool. I mean, it's not ground breaking like Ford claims (hyundai does it too) but it's definitely a cool idea.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Well I hate to be the one to defend Ford, but no company quotes numbers at 100% load. Anecdotally, if your house is pulling 9.6kW per hour during an outage (or even normally), you might want to turn off those hair dryers.
I couldn't agree with this more. We've been off grid and making our own power for 14 years and I am still finding new ways to conserve. But to this Ford feature: think proprietary to the max. And you'd better keep buying electric Ford pickups forever to utilize the kit to power your home cause it probably won't be adaptable for any other battery supply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
"Solar, battery storage and energy services provider Sunrun has partnered with Ford to install the 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro and home integration system, which comes standard with the extended range battery, to power the Intelligent Backup Power system. While they’re in the neighborhood, Sunrun will also give customers the option of installing a solar and battery system for their home."

I missed or ignored the fact that the partner chosen by Ford (at least for this article) is already heavily involved in Solar. That explains the obvious "how do you recharge" questions. So, if you're already into Solar and have a "power wall" or it's equivalent and need additional power it would be advantageous to have the additional 30KW ready to plug in.

Being in SE Ohio, never really looked at Solar other than a maintainer on a battery when I had a boat. Oh yeah, almost forgot the solar on the weather station sensor array. Out west or other areas where Solar is viable and you already have solar, adding a power wall seems viable for outages. Ford and other's obviously see this as a potential market or at least an additional selling point for EV's. I'm not convinced that just a Ford Lightning, plus $3,895, plus installation costs really provides a viable and certainly not a cost effective backup power source.





https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/8_16x9.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
The F150 Hybrid has been out for a while and it can use the gas engine to spin the electric motor as a 7.2 kW 240V generator. Since you can refill the gas tank of the truck, this seems like a better option than the Lightning. You could even charge your neighbor's Lightning with the Hybrid so they can keep running their fridge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
I could get a hybrid but I couldn't do anything under a 250/2500. Being off grid we just can't charge an EV until we get to town over an hour away. There's a charger there but it as always full of parked vehicles :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
The F150 Hybrid has been out for a while and it can use the gas engine to spin the electric motor as a 7.2 kW 240V generator. Since you can refill the gas tank of the truck, this seems like a better option than the Lightning. You could even charge your neighbor's Lightning with the Hybrid so they can keep running their fridge.
Good point. Anyone familiar with using a smaller vehicle (like a Prius or Volt) for house backup? Are they also 240V capable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The F150 Hybrid has been out for a while and it can use the gas engine to spin the electric motor as a 7.2 kW 240V generator. Since you can refill the gas tank of the truck, this seems like a better option than the Lightning. You could even charge your neighbor's Lightning with the Hybrid so they can keep running their fridge.
Still can't get my head around this? Essentially, it's like having a very expensive 7KW portable generator for outages? One of the things we look at is fuel consumption, e.g. "10 hours at half load." The engine is probably larger than a portable generator with heavier fuel usage. OK, portable generator with a battery bank, inverter, so a cushion for an outage. You'd still have to have some cans of gas for refueling and maybe if your house only uses 3-4 KW the excess could recharge the batteries. If you had the Hybrid for other uses this is an additional option, but expensive for 7KW. Is the gas engine happy sitting at idle or fast idle for extended periods? A lot of the newer vehicles aren't.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top