[drmerdp]

Hey folks. I haven’t been active in a while... first baby, house and home stuff etc... But I’m looking to get back on that horse.

I recently purchased an eu7000 and have been planning a generator shed 2.0 build. First and foremost a tri-fuel kit has been the make or break point for this purchase.

I reached out to uscarb in December and received the good news that a kit was in the works and close to completion. I have a uscarb snorkel kit installed on my own champion 41532 7000/9000 Generator and have installed their snorkel kit on 4 of my family members generators.

The second best option is the genconnex Dual-Fuel propane or natural gas kit which take gasoline off the table by placing the demand regulator in a replacement fuel tank... Not ideal for propane users like myself. My 500 gallon tank supplies gas for heat and hot water, and if my tank is low, I may Need to operate on gasoline. This became a real problem when I recently lost power for 3 days and my tank dropped to 10%.... For propane users that means EMPTY. This was a goof up by my fuel supplier but never the less it can happen again....

So here’s their Eu7000 teaser operating at rated load on natural gas.

 

[tabora]

Hey folks. I haven’t been active in a while...

Glad to see you back!
Here are links to a couple of photos of the (relatively) inexpensive generator shed I built. 16" louvered exhaust fan and automatic intake louvers and internal/exhaust air thermal monitoring; would be virtually silent with an EU7000is inside it... I now have a hole at each end for the propane regulator hose to go in through (there's a quick disconnect at the secondary regulator). I put the 20/40lb tanks on the intake side in warm weather, and on the exhaust size in cold weather to keep them warm.


https://www.powerequipmentforum.com...rmate-pm0126000-power-quality-intake-side.jpg

https://www.powerequipmentforum.com...mate-pm0126000-power-quality-exhaust-side.jpg

 

[iowagold]

any pix of the inside??

 

[drmerdp]

Here’s my current enclosure I built in 2013. It’s looking a little worse for wear.

Old school suncast shed, lined with MLV and foil faced foam board. Fans on the intake and exhaust side with a stainless intake vent hood (not pictured.) Hightemp safety cutoff wired in for safety.

Plumbed from my houses propane and a uscarb snorkel kit.

The system backfeeds my whole panel through a interlock. It produced 6500watts MAX on Natural Gas but made good voltage up to 8000watts on propane.

 

[iowagold]

cool looking box!!
we have deep snow in our area...
so I would have done a bit taller on the base..
at least 36 inches...
darn drifts here!! lol!!
and look in to air pre heater for the inside of the box if your temps are cold..

the breather tubes have been causing issues on ng and lp…
ice in the tube or intake box...
they make the plug in heaters that are stick on if you are metal air box..
and for honda they make breather heater kits.

and there are kits for generac and kohler as well

cool low cost idea on your quiet box!!
make sure you have your serial number and receipt for insurance...
gens like to walk off!

that is why I use block and concreate and steel doors..
way more expense!!
but I have yet to have one broken in to!
lol I make them work for it!!

 

[iowagold]

we ordered a us carb kit today for the honda eu7000is on another job.
I will post when we get that on the gen and tested here in the shop before placing on site!!

so drmerdp what did they tell you on size for the hose and quick connects to feed the demand regulator on natural gas???

after all these are just a gx 390!!

I have here 1/2 id ng hose with 3/8 pipe disconnects that we use on most of our setups...

 

[drmerdp]

Yeah I have a nice anchor and Chain just in case.

Cool, I look forward to your review of the trifuel kit.

They didn’t give specifics on the feed hose side. But from my experience 390cc at ~12hp with a 10,000Btu per hp rule of thumb is 120,000btu

As long as the line can support 120,000btu then 1/2 hose is plenty for up to 6’ for natural gas and 12’+ on propane. For over 6’ on natural gas 3/4” hose. Honestly For propane 3/8” is sufficient at 6’.

I would definitely use full bore gas valves instead of standard valves. And on natural gas, I always try to home run as close to the meter before any branch tees.

 

[iowagold]

one inch black pipe line from the meter to the gen manifold with a shut off close to the meter T
and then more shut offs at the manifolds

and yes use real brass ball valves made for natural gas!! 600 psi valves!
jomar for the main 1 inch. zoro had the deal on those.

the heck if it is they neck it down super heavy right after the demand regulator...
we had found the 3/4 id hose was way over kill for each honda eu7000is gens natural gas to each demand regulator..
and the larger hose takes way more natural gas to purge the air out..

only one end of the feed hose male is open the other coupler side has a valve in the coupler..

 

[drmerdp]

Well that’s plenty of supply. Agreed bigger hoses take way longer to purge. I have remote start on my current champion generator and even installed a prime solenoid on the demand regulator that is powered during cranking. Still always needS 6 crank attempts to start.

I have 5’ of 3/4 black pipe from my inside ball valve then 6’ of 3/4 hose leading to the demand regulator. I originally designed the system for my previous house which had natural gas... now I’m on propane. So the 3/4 hose is oversized.

Here’s a solution... I plan to remote start my eu7000 and use a normally closed electric ball valve right before the demand regulator to keep The gas line primed. I can simply tap into the key on source from the generator to power the ball valve. Cycle time is 4-5 seconds.

The demand regulators are technically sealed closed until engine vacuum pulls it open, but I can’t In good conscious trust it to be pressurized and primed for long term standby.

Standby generators use the same principle but use a solenoid valve.

 

[tabora]

any pix of the inside??

Features:

1. PowerMate PM0126000 6000/7500W Generator - panel faces left, exhaust faces bottom of exhaust fan on right.
2. U.S. Carburetion MSK3101 Tri-fuel regulator with quick connect mounted on back side of generator. The primary regulator & hose can be run out a hole in the intake side for hot weather use, or on the exhaust side for cold weather use where the exhaust air keeps the tank at a moderately warm temp.
3. The generator legs sit in two rubber cups screwed into the floor joist so the generator can't move.
4. 16" 1,200CFM iLiving ILG8SF16V Exhaust Fan on the right side.
5. 17" 5NKN4 Dayton gravity operated inlet shutter on the left side.
6. 8 Gauge pigtail on upper left side going to Hubbell HBL2710AR L14-30R receptacle.
7. 60' 8 Gauge GenerLink cable stored on hose reel on left. Mounts on side of garage to the left.
8. Red L14-30P to 4x 20A 120V outlets stored on back wall for non-GenerLink use.
9. Thermal remote monitor mounted (out of frame) above center on rear wall, and a second one mounted outside on the propane tank.

 

[iowagold]

Well that’s plenty of supply. Agreed bigger hoses take way longer to purge. I have remote start on my current champion generator and even installed a prime solenoid on the demand regulator that is powered during cranking. Still always needS 6 crank attempts to start.

I have 5’ of 3/4 black pipe from my inside ball valve then 6’ of 3/4 hose leading to the demand regulator. I originally designed the system for my previous house which had natural gas... now I’m on propane. So the 3/4 hose is oversized.

Here’s a solution... I plan to remote start my eu7000 and use a normally closed electric ball valve right before the demand regulator to keep The gas line primed. I can simply tap into the key on source from the generator to power the ball valve. Cycle time is 4-5 seconds.

The demand regulators are technically sealed closed until engine vacuum pulls it open, but I can’t In good conscious trust it to be pressurized and primed for long term standby.

Standby generators use the same principle but use a solenoid valve.

what brand and model of electric ball valve are you looking at?
yea I agree on the purge time.
I used time relays for line purge.
the longer the no pressure line from the demand reg to the gen plate or injector the longer the purge or prime time.

 

[drmerdp]

what brand and model of electric ball valve are you looking at?
yea I agree on the purge time.
I used time relays for line purge.
the longer the no pressure line from the demand reg to the gen plate or injector the longer the purge or prime time.

This is the one I’ve been thinking of.

Motorized Ball Valve- 3/4" Brass Ball Valve with Standard Port, 9-24V AC/DC and 2 Wire Auto Return Setup by U.S. Solid

It draws only A small bit of current after fully open to remain open and when power is removed it’s a spring return kinda like a Honeywell zone valve for hydronic heat.

 

[drmerdp]

we ordered a us carb kit today for the honda eu7000is on another job.
I will post when we get that on the gen and tested here in the shop before placing on site!!

so drmerdp what did they tell you on size for the hose and quick connects to feed the demand regulator on natural gas???

after all these are just a gx 390!!

I have here 1/2 id ng hose with 3/8 pipe disconnects that we use on most of our setups...

Curious, Wondering what your impressions are of the uscarb trifuel kit. Especially the functionality of switch between fuels.

 

[iowagold]

Curious, Wondering what your impressions are of the uscarb trifuel kit. Especially the functionality of switch between fuels.

time will tell on the new ng kit.
it just landed a few hours ago.
the gen will be back here this next week for the mod.
they just switch off the injection pump and then you jack in to natural gas and turn on your natural gas supply.

pretty slick for the bucks!
less than 500.00 for the basic kit.
then you need the long hoses and fittings as well as all the connections at the house.
and easy extra 200-300 in parts or more depending on your location of the gen to the meter.

the setup I will be using it on will be close to the gas and electric meters (15 foot)
I will have pix etc on the honda gen forum.

way cheaper than the ng injection systems that I build!! (over $5k plus the gen)
but this $500 buck kit is not injected for the natural gas.

we will see how the newer eu7000i likes this kit...

update the tri fuel us carb kit rocks!
works perfect on NG!
a big note: make sure to run larger hoses at least 3/4 if it is longer than 4 foot to the NG connection to the demand regulator.
i have short hose runs, so the 1/2 id works ok!
and i have 1 inch id NG black pipe up to the valve and quick coupler.

 

[Browse Deweb]

Did you have any luck with the kit on the EU7000is? I understand that there are issues with the Genconnex kit, especially with Eco mode, but not sure how people are making out with the US Carb kit. It would be nice if my Honda could reliably use both gasoline and natural gas, but there is no way I'm going to modify it unless the solution is bullet proof.

 

[iowagold]

we use the us carb kit.

 

[Power User]

I understand that there are issues with the Genconnex kit, especially with Eco mode, but not sure how people are making out with the US Carb kit.

Yes, like this one.

 

[drmerdp]

So I’m in the next phase of my propane conversion with the EU7000. Currently my primary fuel on EU7000 (A) is gasoline but I want to make the move to propane as primary.

The generator lives and operates in a running enclosure. I built a remote control box for the generator that is located next to my panel in my basement. I want the unit to reliably start first attempt. To accomplish this the fuel source needs to remain primed at the demand regulator and I may need to use an auto primer to feed extra fuel during cranking.

I contacted UScarb and purchased a 1/2 lock out solenoid and their auto primer kit. Also they build me a patch harness that connects between their trifuel kits controller and fuel selection switch. The harness has a 12v wire that I’ll use to trigger a fused relay to open the gas lock out solenoid.

I’ve heard that these solenoids have a reputation for current draw and getting hot. So I bench tested it and it had a current draw of 2.0amps and quickly heated up to 200 degrees after 45 minutes. All standby generators use a similar lock out solenoid so I suppose they also heat up like crazy and do their job but I guess I’m just a bit taken back by how hot a fuel control valve is allowed to get lol.

@iowagold you probably have some experience with this. Does anyone have thoughts on the proper practices of using such a valve?

 

[iowagold]

what is the resistance on the valve coil?
and i see it is at 12 volts and just less than 2 amps.
see if they have a 24 volt version of the coil as it is 12 volt... as the resistance is higher on the 24 volt.
and lower current when on 12 volt for less heat.
same on the relays. use 24 volt relay coils when you can.
at least on the stuff that maybe on for a week or more.

sounds like that might be a prime sol or valve.
those are hard snapping fast action on off style for a burst of lp through an orifice.
higher current on those...

make sure to use an adjustable timer in partial seconds on the prime on the demand regulator for start
it is less time to prime on lp.
they also make bottle crackers for the lp bottle valves.
a basic servo motor with a clutch to operate the bottle valve.

pm if you need part numbers

 

[drmerdp]

Yes it’s a quick action instant open and close valve. It may work as a priming valve but it’s sized appropriately as a primary supply valve for this application.

The quick close operation is perfect for shutting the gas supply as soon as so as I turn off the main switch on my controller. It just gets pretty darn hot, I’m probably over thinking it. I sent an email to UScarb to get there feed back.

Honestly my first choice for valve was an auto return electric ball valve. It’s “rated” for “fuel” but I can only find in the national plumbing code references to solenoid valves when dealing with gaseous fuel.

An electric ball valve can be manually opened and closed in the event of an electrical issue.

1/2" Brass Electric Ball Valve - 2 Wire Auto Return

This motorized ball valve offers the control of a solenoid valve without the restrictions of flow or constant power requirements. Unlike the quick response of a solenoid valve the slower 4-5 second to open and close eliminates water hammer. The 2-wire XR22 unit is available in a 9 to 24 AC / DC...

www.electricsolenoidvalves.com