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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,

I recently got myself an EU7000 to use as a home backup.
I'm a smart home nut and love to collect data out of anything I can.
I'm also dissapointed that being a Canadian means I could only buy the Canadian EU7000 model which doesn't include the updated Bluetooth tech the US model has.

I'd like to investigate the possibility of building my own Smart Home connection or Bluetooth App diagnostics type of device using the EU7000 DLC "Data Link Connector".

It would be cool to be able to stream data like:
  • Fuel Consumption
  • Electrical Load
  • Runtime Estimations
  • Engine Hours

The DLC connector is described in the service manual.
Rectangle Font Parallel Engineering Pattern


It obviously uses some kind of serial comunicaiton. I'm guessing its UART for the physical layer and who knows what kind of protocal? Virtual Terminal? Could be anything.
The only information I can find about this connector online is that there's some kind of "Dr.H" propriatary diagnostics device that you can use with it. Seems to be shared with Honda Marine outboard motors.

I'm wondering if anyone has any more technical information on the connector or the protocol used. Are there any products out there that use it? If I could get my hands on a diagnostics device or any product that uses it I could capture the traffic and use that info to build my own device.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This is pretty much the only piece of information I can find about it online:
 

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Welcome. But your’s has the “cold climate technology“ that isn’t available on the US model. Maybe you could eventually buy a US model with bt and sell your current 7000 with very little loss?
 

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Hey Guys,

I recently got myself an EU7000 to use as a home backup.
I'm a smart home nut and love to collect data out of anything I can.
I'm also dissapointed that being a Canadian means I could only buy the Canadian EU7000 model which doesn't include the updated Bluetooth tech the US model has.

I'd like to investigate the possibility of building my own Smart Home connection or Bluetooth App diagnostics type of device using the EU7000 DLC "Data Link Connector".

It would be cool to be able to stream data like:
  • Fuel Consumption
  • Electrical Load
  • Runtime Estimations
  • Engine Hours

The DLC connector is described in the service manual.
View attachment 10420

It obviously uses some kind of serial comunicaiton. I'm guessing its UART for the physical layer and who knows what kind of protocal? Virtual Terminal? Could be anything.
The only information I can find about this connector online is that there's some kind of "Dr.H" propriatary diagnostics device that you can use with it. Seems to be shared with Honda Marine outboard motors.

I'm wondering if anyone has any more technical information on the connector or the protocol used. Are there any products out there that use it? If I could get my hands on a diagnostics device or any product that uses it I could capture the traffic and use that info to build my own device.

Thanks!
I’m with you man, I looked into the Dr. Honda interface and software as well. I was not able to find a single instance of anyone who ever used it on an eu7000 and shelved the idea.

Id love to see what you come up with.

At the very least you can add the Bluetooth module for remote start/stop function, but there is no load or fuel data.
 

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Don't have (and probably would never buy) an EU7000IS, but the topic was interesting ... would an OBD tool be of possible use:

OBD Tool (OBD) - HealTech Electronics Ltd.

It seems to have some adapters that might plug into the DLC socket? Or some similar place on the EU? If not, maybe it can be hacked up a bit ...

I also thought about an add-on hour-meter/tachometer thingy (which I've added to my own open-frame genny), but the EFI in the EU made it above my head ... if it had worked, then the next step is to get a h-m/tach thingy that lets us get at the data, from which calcs can be done. I'm getting all kinds of data from the open-frame genny ...

Hope this helps ...
 

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Don't have (and probably would never buy) an EU7000IS, but the topic was interesting ... would an OBD tool be of possible use:

OBD Tool (OBD) - HealTech Electronics Ltd.

It seems to have some adapters that might plug into the DLC socket? Or some similar place on the EU? If not, maybe it can be hacked up a bit ...

I also thought about an add-on hour-meter/tachometer thingy (which I've added to my own open-frame genny), but the EFI in the EU made it above my head ... if it had worked, then the next step is to get a h-m/tach thingy that lets us get at the data, from which calcs can be done. I'm getting all kinds of data from the open-frame genny ...

Hope this helps ...
Seems like that scanner would work… it says motorcycles, atvs, and outboards.

The eu7000 uses what Honda calls PGM-FI for its fuel injection system. Which is what they also called their OBD1 Fuel injection in the 1990s. That got me thinking and I went digging into my OBD1 adapters and found an old Honda DLC connector but it’s 3 pin flat not a 4 pin square.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Seems like that scanner would work… it says motorcycles, atvs, and outboards.

The eu7000 uses what Honda calls PGM-FI for its fuel injection system. Which is what they also called their OBD1 Fuel injection in the 1990s. That got me thinking and I went digging into my OBD1 adapters and found an old Honda DLC connector but it’s 3 pin flat not a 4 pin square.
I think I'll shoot them an email asking if they have any clue if it works on a Honda Gene. If it does, I'll buy it. But my confidence is not high.
What's not giving me confidence that it does work is that it's only a 3 wire interface if you look at the photos. ODB can work with a 3 wire interface if its ISO9142 - Which I've read is popular with older Honda devices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_signal_protocols
This protocol only has a single data line. "K" they call it. But the service diagram describes the data lines as "RX/TX" which is more in line with UART/Serial comunication than what ISO9142 would be.

The service manual also shows RX/TX data lines between the GCU (general compute unit) and the Inverter boards. Common sense would say they likely use the same physical comunication protocol between that and the debug port.
I think the next step for me is to just hook up an osciloscope to the DLC connector and see if it spits any data out. If not, connect the scope up to the GCU to Inverter data lines and see what that looks like.
 

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Perhaps these two things to chase down next:

1. get contact info for a dealer/service shop, find the right person to talk to (a service tech), and pose the q to them; perhaps service folks have tools that plug right into a data port somewhere, and they figure out what customers have been doing (or not doing) with the genny.

2. with the service manual, try to identify port(s) for some well-known protocol support (RS-485?). If found, then you're halfway there ... the protocol is present, you've just got to hack into the right port with a modified plug, and get at the data stream. It shouldn't void any warranty, and some googling might reveal others doing the same.

Also, search github, and see if someone has already done some of this work for you; they might have figured out where to tap in for the info, decoded the protocol that Honda uses, and written something up in Python, or for Arduino. I found similar work already done for the Magnum Inverter/Charger we use ... comm protocol decoded, python software written. Quite the starting point.

Hope this helps ...
 

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I'd like to investigate the possibility of building my own Smart Home connection or Bluetooth App diagnostics type of device using the EU7000 DLC "Data Link Connector".

It would be cool to be able to stream data like:
  • Fuel Consumption
  • Electrical Load
  • Runtime Estimations
  • Engine Hours
I'm really interested in this project and have a use where the EU7000is is concerned.

We are off grid and the genset is mostly not needed for ~ 8 months of the year. During those 8 months the only 'automation" needed is a function of the Outback solar equipment like the inverter, charge controller, battery monitor and the display unit. The display unit (Mate3s) uploads all component data to their cloud app (OpticsRE) which also allows for real time monitoring and full programming adjustments from anywhere ya have a connection. Is pretty cool. BTW, the EU7000is is remote start enabled (aftermarket) and turned on and off, including warm up/cool down, by a fairly rich set of Automatic Generator Start programmable options that are built into the OB system for any 2 or 3 wire AGS.

But the generator is not part of the data flow except for the kW or AH coming in to charge the the batteries and cover the overhead and system loads while running. My interest is primarily this: fuel consumption. If this is possible the other stuff should be easy including, someway, temperature (air intake for the injection fuel map?). For fuel consumption it should be a function of the interface and programming to compare it to the other three (four) on the list. For me it would be fuel consumption per kW (at a measured temperature).

To me this stuff is limited and challenged by intellectual property. I know that Outback really protects their communications and suggestions for changes. And if of value, could take a loonngg time. I can't even imagine what it would take from an org the size of Honda. So as you mentioned it takes someone with the skills to reverse engineer the data flow with little help from the Mfr and possible liabilities. (Someone did this with OB stuff and created a cool application called WattPlot. It's still available but is not active. It is a local app - not cloud and you can't do it and OpticRE at the same time without some add'l magic.)

I love the instantaneous and average MPG from our newer pickups. The same from the genset would really be useful for one who closely monitors a critical system. I'm not holding my breath however. For the startup $ maybe cloud funding? I'd help. Seriously.
 

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OBDII revolutionized my ability with my vehicles to clear my own DTC codes and get access to all kinds of data for extended troubleshooting; I no longer drive a vehicle into town to get this done, while waiting for hours or scheduling repairs, unless a repair is really warranted. I don't recall the history of how it came about for the car industry, but there's no such changeover/pressure that I can see for the generator or other small engine market.

Honda's DLC connector is there, proprietary, and locked up behind authorized dealer/service ... so, theoretically, they are driving you to the service industry to "clear a DTC" or even to just "look at the numbers", and both making money and causing inconvenience ... but it is their right to lock it up, and your only choice is to buy or not buy into that scheme (or hack a bit).

Other such proprietary protocols and connectors have been "hacked", and this one calls out for hacking as well, as least until things get OBDII'd. My research indicates that there is a comm protocol (KWP2000), and the pinout of the little DLC connector is known ... there were a number of Github projects around this, as apparently, we just need to read the "k-line" pin to start getting at the data. With the right connector, you can change ECU values as well. Some programming req'd ...

Besides the proprietary version of the "Dr. H" connector and software, there might possibly be other service-only tools (a "short service connector"?). BRP Diagnostics supposedly has a non-proprietary version of the Dr. H software/connector, but price and features are hard to come by, w/o some back-and-forth with the vendor.

I couldn't make the choice for an EU7000 series, for similar reasons wherein I have to avoid Generac's ... "authorized dealer/service only" translates to nothing good in my book, being out in the country, but it could be good for others' scenarios.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I connected the DLC RX/TX lines up to an oscilloscope today. Theres nothing going on those lines with nothing plugged in.
I have learnt:
  • They are quiet during normal operation
  • Turning the generator ON the TX line gets a short pulse.
    • Only happens at power on - presumably its just part of hardware initialization in the GCU
    • The pulse is 5v and 10ms in duration
Not much to go off of I'm afraid. I'm probably not going to make much if any progress on this without getting my hands on a "Dr. H" if that device does indeed work.
 

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Maybe the 'scope just showed a line check signal from the ecu; nothing more forthcoming until it gets a wakeup signal. After tons of reading, the scope of work may be something like this:

1. dlc plug is linked to ecu, as seen in wiring diagrams
2. build a dlc plug to serial plug cable (hook up to raspberry pi)
3. write python code to send appropriate wakeup signal to ecu (init sequence)
4. read data coming back from ecu

So, honda has something like OBD-I (not obdii as with cars) for their motorcycle/outboard and possibly genny engines? There are projects out there where folks are building this cable, interfacing it to RPi or to their PC via usb, and writing python software to "see" the data coming from the ecu in these motorcycles and outboards.

That might be the scope of work, if not pursuing the Dr H non-proprietary solution (brpdiagnostics . com, and possibly mcuinnovations . com)

I don't have an eu7000is, so can't go any further at this time ... I hope to find an almost free/junked one to explore this inverter/genny brave new world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Maybe the 'scope just showed a line check signal from the ecu; nothing more forthcoming until it gets a wakeup signal. After tons of reading, the scope of work may be something like this:

1. dlc plug is linked to ecu, as seen in wiring diagrams
2. build a dlc plug to serial plug cable (hook up to raspberry pi)
3. write python code to send appropriate wakeup signal to ecu (init sequence)
4. read data coming back from ecu

So, honda has something like OBD-I (not obdii as with cars) for their motorcycle/outboard and possibly genny engines? There are projects out there where folks are building this cable, interfacing it to RPi or to their PC via usb, and writing python software to "see" the data coming from the ecu in these motorcycles and outboards.

That might be the scope of work, if not pursuing the Dr H non-proprietary solution (brpdiagnostics . com, and possibly mcuinnovations . com)

I don't have an eu7000is, so can't go any further at this time ... I hope to find an almost free/junked one to explore this inverter/genny brave new world.
I also tried a FT232 UART connection to it and sent some random characters over at 9600baud. Didn't cause it to wake or reply with anything.
I'd be happy to plug a pi or something else into it. It appears to be 5v logic levels. Obviously we need to discover this magic "wake up sequence" or what the comunication protocol is in general. Being able to sniff the traffic on a legit Dr.H would give that away pretty quickly.
If anyone has any ideas on the exact signalling to try. I'm open to giving it a spin.

I've sent an email off to brp asking them for suggestions and about cost to purchase a Dr.H. I'm not going to go crazy with my spending here though so we'll see what I manage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I have identified the DLC connector if anyone feels like buying/making their own cable. Also the Remote Start connector.

ConnectorPart Number
Female DLC Connector (Buy this one to plug into DLC)6187-4441
Male DLC6180-4181
Male Remote Start (Buy this one to plug into remote start port)6090-1021
Female Remote Start with Clip6090-1125
Female Remote Start6090-1051

Edit: To clariffy they have the same measurements and appearance. I have them on order and will update when I see they work in hand.
Edit again: Have received these now. They are indeed correct.
 

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ok what exact model number is your eu7000i generator?
and what is the model year?
this was the canada version right?

have you purchased and verified these connectors yet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Sorry, to clariffy. I have just confirmed they are the connectors by taking measurements. I have them on order. When I receive them I can confirm.
They are for the 2021 Honda EU7000is Canadian Version.
If anyone knows if these connectors are any different between versions or years let us know!
 

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yes they are not all the same.
it depends on the generator version and country location
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Update: I recieved the connectors. They are an exact match. I checked the service manuals for the US and CA wiring diagrams and the pinouts for the DLC and the Remote Start connector are the same. So while I understand these models have their differences, I doubt these connectors are any different. If you do decide to buy some though. Just check what yours look like first!

The specific order links incase anyone else wants any. Like a lot of components from Aliexpress, these probably arn't genuine. But they certainly work!

I'm still at a loss for what type of signalling the DLC connector uses. So I probably won't make any progress on this project until someone comes forward with some information or I get my hands on a Honda Dr.H.







 
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