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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So far as I can tell the only difference is one is dual fuel and one is tri-fuel. The 'T' model is $700 more but it looks like a conversion kit can be had for $130 to make the XH accept natural gas. So why so much more for the stock tri-fuel model? What am I missing?

I suppose more importantly is if this is the right option to run off of natural gas and provide enough to run the whole house. Estimating my power needs has been a bit confusing but if it helps I'm after something that will run the whole house off of natural gas. We're willing to forgo using the electric range if need be but otherwise its a 1500 sq ft house w/ a 2.5 ton central AC, gas furnace, gas water heater, Fridge, Deep Freezer, TV, higher end PC, laptop and a few other smaller items. The location would be very near the room where I work from home and have regular calls so noise is a concern but secondary to making sure it meets our other needs.

Im just starting my research so if it's not quite so straight forward any suggestions or even links to helpful articles is appreciated. So many out there that are overly general it doesnt seem to be of much help.
 

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Well the most important step is knowing the running wattage and starting wattage of appliances that you HAVE to have. Then find a generator that can handle those loads, price and reliability/serviceability, and what fuel is the most convenient/reliable…
 

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You won't get full power out of the generator running on natural gas.
XP13000HXT Specifications

Gasoline
Peak Wattage13,000
Running Wattage10,500
Running Amperage at 120V 87.5
Running Amperage at 240V 43.75
Runtime at 25% Load17
Runtime at 50% Load8.5


Propane
Peak Wattage12,000
Running Wattage9,500
Running Amperage at 120V79.16
Running Amperage at 240V39.58
Runtime at 25% Load13
Runtime at 50% Load6.5


Natural Gas
Peak Wattage10,000
Running Wattage8,500
Running Amperage at 120V70.83
Running Amperage at 240V35.42
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for the replies. I did catch the lower peak/running watts on nat gas so keeping that in mind. Trying to track down what my AC uses which should by far be the largest draw. A soft starter is a great idea. Didn't know those existed before reading up on these forums. Great source of info!
 

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Trying to track down what my AC uses which should by far be the largest draw.
Post a photo of the tag on your condenser (the one that lists voltage, amps, LRA, etc.) and that will help us provide feedback to you.

Do you have power outages often or are you just preparing for a possible outage? The reason I ask is that you are correct that your A/C is probably your biggest load. You might be able to get by with one or two window units if your outages are few and far between. This could mean that a much smaller gen might suffice for emergencies. Oversizing gens is a common mistake that people make if they have rare power outages.

Another consideration for you might be the generator's THD. The XP13000XH has about 12% THD. That's much better than some gens that have 25% or more THD, but personally I would want something with <5% THD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Post a photo of the tag on your condenser (the one that lists voltage, amps, LRA, etc.) and that will help us provide feedback to you.

Do you have power outages often or are you just preparing for a possible outage? The reason I ask is that you are correct that your A/C is probably your biggest load. You might be able to get by with one or two window units if your outages are few and far between. This could mean that a much smaller gen might suffice for emergencies. Oversizing gens is a common mistake that people make if they have rare power outages.

Another consideration for you might be the generator's THD. The XP13000XH has about 12% THD. That's much better than some gens that have 25% or more THD, but personally I would want something with <5% THD.
Outages are not very common, its more a peace of mind purchase at the wifes request than anything else. That said I think I'd rather spend more on a generator that will run the central ac than deal with a few window units that would just sit in storage until something happened. Honestly I was happy with just running a few fans but apparently that's not an option either lol.

Forgive that lack of photo.. long story but here's the info.

Model GSX160301FG
AC Volts 208-230 Phase 1
Volt Range Min 197 Max 253
Max Fuse Amps or Max Circuit Breaker 25
Time Delay Fuse or HACR Circuit Breaker Required
Min Circuit Amps 17.0
Fan Motor FLA 0.95, H.P. 1/6
Compressor RLA 12.8 LRA 64
Short Circuit Current: 5ka RMS Symmetrical, 600V Maxiumum

I've been looking up the MicroAir Soft Start but many of the links on their site do not work including the one to verify which model is needed and their contact us link to ask them directly. I found their facebook page with a phone number but it's no longer in service. Certainly seems like they are out of business? I do see plenty for sale on amazon with a picture of various model numbers but no indication of which is which. So if anyone happens to know which is the proper model I'd appreciate it.

As a side note I contacted Goodman to ask if installing one of these would cause any issues with the warranty since it's a brand new unit. The response I got was 'I dont think so'. They kept trying to say a hard start kit and I had to correct that a few times. I guess soft starts just aren't well known? I suppose if there's ever an electrical issue it would be very difficult to prove if the add on did or didn't contribute to it.
 

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I see what you mean about the issues with the MicroAir website. It is probably just a temporary issue; they are not out of business.

You might need the EasyStart 364 for that condenser but check it when this page starts to work again. Then click the WHICH MODEL DO I NEED link to verify. Or call 609-259-2636

The LRA for your compressor is 64 amps, and the XP13000XH can only deliver about 42 amps on natural gas. So, without the EasyStart it will likely fail to startup.

If you talk to MicroAir, ask them about the possible warranty issue. I think they can put your mind at ease.
 

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One other thought...

When starting the A/C you will need to mindful of all the other loads you may have running at the time. Using a portable generator often comes down to proper load management unless you install an insanely large gen.

That's why I have a small 5KW inverter generator for my gas-electric house. I don't run the central A/C. I have an inverter window A/C for an outage. Our outages are rare, so it is really not an issue.
 

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One other thought...

When starting the A/C you will need to mindful of all the other loads you may have running at the time. Using a portable generator often comes down to proper load management unless you install an insanely large gen.

That's why I have a small 5KW inverter generator for my gas-electric house. I don't run the central A/C. I have an inverter window A/C for an outage. Our outages are rare, so it is really not an issue.
^ This is what I did. My Honda EU7000is powers the whole house (converted to run on natural gas, propane or gasoline using the MSK7000 conversion kit), but during outages in the summer, I hook up a portable LG LP1419IVSM inverter AC unit for the area of the house we're hanging out in. We had a short outage last week during a heat wave and everything worked perfectly. The benefits are quieter and more fuel efficient generator, perfect sine wave output, Honda quality/parts/reliability and fuel injection if I used gasoline. No need for a monstrous and loud generator putting out dirty power and using lots of fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
^ This is what I did. My Honda EU7000is powers the whole house (converted to run on natural gas, propane or gasoline using the MSK7000 conversion kit), but during outages in the summer, I hook up a portable LG LP1419IVSM inverter AC unit for the area of the house we're hanging out in. We had a short outage last week during a heat wave and everything worked perfectly. The benefits are quieter and more fuel efficient generator, perfect sine wave output, Honda quality/parts/reliability and fuel injection if I used gasoline. No need for a monstrous and loud generator putting out dirty power and using lots of fuel.
This sounds like a good option but at $7k for the generator, $750 for the conversion kit and another $700 for an inverter AC plus a few hundred more for the tie in to the house. That appears to be on par if not more than a generac option installed. I suppose the downfall of the generac would be that its not mobile. Decisions decisions..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The EU7000is is under $5K...
7k was a typo, it's 6 on the honda site. The ones I saw under 5 are all on back order but I did just find one at 5500 so that would make it come out to be a bit cheaper. I'm not so worried about the cost within reason but you guys have provided some good info to think on. I'll happily pay a bit more for the quieter option. Now to see if I can push the wife back to the 50k new roof, solar and battery option. lol.
 

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7k was a typo, it's 6 on the honda site.
MSRP may be $5,999, but there are lots of them out there for less. Saw one go out the door in Naples, Maine a couple of weeks ago for $4,699.00.
 

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MSRP may be $5,999, but there are lots of them out there for less. Saw one go out the door in Naples, Maine a couple of weeks ago for $4,699.00.
I was considering a whole house unit after my two neighbors installed Generacs following a 3 day outage, but we're considering moving soon and wanted to have a portable that I can take with me to my new house. I got the Honda for $4500 no tax a few years ago and with the power inlet box, interlock kit, breaker, conversion kit, power cord and NG hose/fittings, I'm at around $6k invested which is about half of what the Generac would have cost. Honda's have great resale value and I could likely get at least $4k if I sold it and later upgraded to a whole house liquid cooled 1800 RPM unit like the Cummins RS25.

If I wanted to run my main 4 ton HVAC, I'd likely have to get a second Honda and parallel them. I do have an EasyStart 368 on mine, but the inrush is still over 50A, with running current about 18A. I don't want to be stressing the Honda like that, especially with other stuff in the house running and the Honda losing some power due to natural gas use. I decided getting a portable inverter AC to save money since we don't lose power that frequently and the second Honda would likely just be sitting around gathering dust.
 

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a portable LG LP1419IVSM inverter AC unit for the area of the house we're hanging out in
I also like those portable inverter units such as the LG. Easy to move around as needed. I would prefer to have a dual hose unit so as not to use inside air to cool the condenser. We ultimately decided on the window mounted Midea MAW08V1QWT. It wouldn't be too much trouble to move it to another window if I need to do so because it sits on its own frame. However, Midea does make a portable dual hose inverter unit...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Looks like their links work again as well now. That said it's a bit janky still. It shows the 364 is the correct one, click the link to order that product and the page it takes you to shows one price but when you add it to the cart it shows another. What I found is even though the item it's showing you is correct the price reflected was defaulting to the 120v model for some reason. Ah well, it's ordered now to pay for shipping and wait 2-3 weeks processing + shipping to get it... Amazon has us spoiled.

On the bright side I did find a post about a discount code from over a year ago that still works. AIRSTREAM will save you $25 which basically covers shipping. Apparently it used to be $40 off but I'll take the 25.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Good deal. It should be good for your compressor even if you're not using it with the generator.
That's essentially why I decided to go that route. Figured it couldn't hurt no matter which way we go in the end. I am leaning toward a larger generator though that could power the central AC over the portable window unit route. Primarily because the main room we spend our time in only has a french door and a bay window, no standard style window for the portable/window ac units to use. I'm sure I could still get creative with the bay window and the vent hose on the portable LG suggested above so it's not completely out yet.

Thanks again for the help. I'm sure there's more to come in a few weeks once I've seen how much the east start reduces the startup draw.
 
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