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I am thinking the same thing. It felt like way more than 0.5psi or less. I have a new pressure gauge showing up Wednesday. I may need a regulator on this line.
Duromax XP13000HXT not starting on natural gas
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If you do end up with a regulator to reduce the pressure, maybe it would be better to place it on the end of the hose just before the quick connect at the gen. The reason for this is two-fold. The line pressure would stay up better so as to have a consistent pressure delivered to the gen's regulator. A consistent pressure helps keep the air/fuel ratio more stable throughout the throttle range. Also, having the regulator attached to the hose rather than the meter means that you can store the regulator with the hose and have less exposure to the elements over time (which should translate into a longer lasting regulator).
Another suggestion is that the hose be at a lower angle when attached to the gen. These gens vibrate a lot and put stress on the propane/NG hoses if attached at a right angle. Please excuse the bad photo editing, but this is what I have in mind...
EDIT: I revised the photo to show "2 psi to 9" w.c" regulator instead of "2 psi to 11" w.c" because of confusion introduced. Also, putting the regulator on the end of the DuroMax hose instead of at the meter assumes the hose will handle 2 psi pressure. Hopefully the hose is labeled with its specifications.
A full port valve would not be necessary due to the high pressure. And, I would also use a street elbow (pointing down) at the meter so that the hose is vertical...again, to relieve the stress on the hose.
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I believe 11 in. WC is for propane.
The allowable NG nominal pressure for this generator is between 6-9 in. WC (~0.21 to 0.32 psi).
Running off propane shouldn't be an issue because a) It has its own regulator, and b) OP has confirmed it runs on propane.
The allowable NG nominal pressure for this generator is between 6-9 in. WC (~0.21 to 0.32 psi).
Running off propane shouldn't be an issue because a) It has its own regulator, and b) OP has confirmed it runs on propane.
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No problem. I mentioned it because the illustration indicated 11 in. WC coming out of the drawn-on regulator going to the generator. 11" is fine if it was propane, but the fuel source in that one is obviously NG. It could just might be a source of confusion.
From what I've seen with LP vs NG there are different settings for each. Not sure if it's a different part or adjustment that's needed.
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After reading through this thread, I concur with the possibility of having blown the diaphragm in the final regulator.
The only other thing that I can contribute is that since apparently there is a separate regulator for each gasseous fuel type, the one for NG may not be set up correctly in terms of fuel/air.
The only other thing that I can contribute is that since apparently there is a separate regulator for each gasseous fuel type, the one for NG may not be set up correctly in terms of fuel/air.
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I believe you can use the same demand regulator for both propane and NG. You are correct that the demand regulator will need to be reconfigured when switching between these two fuels.
They require different inlet pressure and flowrate. Also, the outlet jetting will also need to be adjusted (ie. load block) depending on the fuel selected. Some are already pre-adjusted to run on propane or NG and all you have to do is turn a knob or switch so that the correct jet is selected for the fuel you're using. Most common on tri-fuel models.
Then there's also the typical load block that is continuously adjustable but they're more apt with dual-fuel models as it's going to be a little cumbersome to break out a couple of wrenches when you need to switch between the two gaseous fuels.
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I hope you are running 3-4 ounces or of ng. Not 3-4 psi. 4 ounces is 7" wc.
I would look into running 9" wc,
I think Duromax max is 9"
If you increase your wc make sure your appliances , furnace, dryer etc. have built in regs.
You could add a step down reg to the main line into your home if you increase your wc.
Another note which may be a problem is your gasoline valve should be closed and engine purged of gasoline.
Also put Sta-bil in your gasoline so it doesn't clog up the works.
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I've looked through all the posts (as of 1/11) and the video. I don't have experience with these "from the factory" tri- fuel units like the XP13000HXT, but I've set up a couple gens with conversion kits and run them on NG. Here's a couple comments and questions that may help the troubleshooting. I don't have any specific suggestions.
1. I don't have an NG meter, but over the years at three different houses, I noticed I could easily block the NG gas flow by simply putting a thumb on the open pipe feeding appliances. That may be a good quick test of a too high gas pressure; if you can't stop it easily; its too high.
2. The regulators I got with my NG conversion kits seem to be designed such that they completely block the flow of NG to the engine if there is no vacuum provided by the engine. (I don't know if they also serve as a pressure reducer). This blocking is a safety mechanism; without that blocking, an engine that died would still get raw NG pushed into it and would be a hazard.
3. These regulators have a primer button to allow NG into the feed pipe just before starting so that NG is available to start the engine; at that point vacuum is generated which hold the regulator valve open
4. At 0:39 of the video is a picture of the gen panel. Notice that in "Step 1 select gas type", NG is alone as one choice while propane and gasoline are grouped together as the second choice. Does this choose the "porting" some of you have talked about? (Step 2 choices have NG and propane together as a choice and gasoline alone. This must simply be choosing the gasoline tank vs. the front vapor pipe as the source).
5. In the video, when NG is tried, the starter does not run continuously; is the purpose of pausing to allow flooding to dissipate or is that something to protect the battery? Would that also happen on the gasoline setting if it did not fire up immediately?
Since high NG pressure is not available to the customer, and these small engines are designed to feed themselves via vacuum, not force-fed by gas pressure, I'm thinking the problem doesn't have anything to do with the gas supply being too strong, although a stuck open primer mechanism could, perhaps, cause issues.
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Problem solved. I'll post the details as a reply to my original post.
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Problem solved. The gas pressure on the line I tapped into was too high (well over 30”WC). It turns out that the regulator on the other line out of the meter was exactly correct to step the gas pressure down to 7.5” WC. Once I replumbed the line and put the connection downstream from the secondary regulator, it started right up. Here's a short of the plumbing and running generator. And now for the electrical portion of the show!
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Great you got this puzzle figured out! I'm not sure I understand the reason for the original problem symptoms, though. To get it all working, did you have to replace any regulators due to an excess pressure blowout? Perhaps the regulator in the gen blocks pressure that is too high and that's why you got no gas smell and no start??
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There is a regulator on the street side of the meter that stepped the city pressure going to it the meter. On the house side there are two lines coming out of the meter. One has a regulator on it. The other does not, and that was appealing to tap into because all I had to do was remove a plug. Only after the generator wouldn’t start did I think to actually check the line pressure. Whoops. Over 30IWC. So I looked at the data plate on the regulator on the second line out of the meter and sure enough it was right at 7.5IWC. So after some more involved replumbing everything worked. The video makes it clearer.
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Excellent job. Too much pressure will cause a rich condition and will displace all the air in the combustion chamber and so, it will not combust.
In retrospect, I now realize that in the video you showed earlier, pressing the valve to release the gas from the QC did indicated that the pressure was too strong. Normally, you'll only hear a soft hiss of the gas escaping.
In retrospect, I now realize that in the video you showed earlier, pressing the valve to release the gas from the QC did indicated that the pressure was too strong. Normally, you'll only hear a soft hiss of the gas escaping.
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