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Agree on the whole Ethanol deal. What I can't figure out, is if the entire automotive industry can adapt to Ethanol based fuel, (up to and including E-85), why can't the small engine industry? It's not like this stuff is going away any time soon..... If it ever does. Cars and trucks can handle 10% Ethanol just fine. And have for the last 30+ years.

If anything, they are now pushing for upping the Ethanol content from 10% to 15%. So this will, in all likelihood, get worse, not better. Yet here we are, with just about EVERY manufacturer of small gas engines still producing engines with outdated fuel systems, that cannot handle Ethanol based fuels. And as far as I know, no one is even attempting to solve this problem with fuel systems that can handle Ethanol. Thus far none will without going to he!!, and causing a multitude of problems in a very short period of time.... Like the one's you've outlined.

Even the motorcycle industry, the outboard motor industry, along with the entire personal watercraft industry all can handle Ethanol based fuels just fine. You would think Honda, of all people would be the first to get on the ball with this. They manufacture motorcycles, outboards, as well as an entire auto industry, that all run on Ethanol based fuels...... But not their generators and other small power equipment. This can't be a Moon shot to make happen. And with what they're charging, it should have happened decades ago.
Very few vehicles are e85 compatible, and only fuel injected engines can run e85 AND lesser ethanol blends. Carbureted engines need to be jetted specifically for e85.

Small engines run ethanol blended fuel fine, the issue is letting the fuel age in the carb. Ethanol blended fuels are harder on small engines because carburetors are small. Their passages and jets are very small compared to larger engines. Small passages gum up quicker and easier.

I agree. For the HUGE PREMIUM Honda charges for any, and all of their generators, they should come with a priming system, AND Ethanol based fuel compatibility.
A Priming system would be cool, but I feel it’s hardly a deal breaker.

As for the Yamaha suggestion, the less capable ef2000is is gravity fed, and the almost as capable ef2200 has a fuel pump as well. Same boat when running carb dry.
 

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"A Priming system would be cool, but I feel it’s hardly a deal breaker.

As for the Yamaha suggestion, the less capable ef2000is is gravity fed, and the almost as capable ef2200 has a fuel pump as well. Same boat when running carb dry"




It's a pretty big deal when your machine sits all year.

But you are correct. I was thinking of the excellent 2000is, and had the two confused. My mistake.


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I'm guessing fuel injection helps, but there are very few generators or small engines using this technology for some reason. I'm guessing cost is a major factor. One more reason I like the EU7000IS over anything else.
For what Honda charges for their generators, they should have had Ethanol compatible engines decades ago. Cost is the biggest factor in owning that generator. It retails for over a dollar a watt. And you'll still have the exact same issues with Ethanol based fuels with it, that you will with generators that sell for 75% less, and put out twice the wattage.
 

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...Small engines run ethanol blended fuel fine, the issue is letting the fuel age in the carb.
That's the problem. All of these units sit more than they run. Generators, chain saws, power blowers, hedge and string trimmers, name it. Unless they're used on a daily basis by professionals they will sit. This should NOT be a problem. But it is, and has been since the introduction of Ethanol in gasoline over 30 years ago. This is not a Shuttle Launch for these manufacturers to solve. They just don't care.

Go to any small engine repair shop and ask them what repairs they deal with the most. They'll all tell you it's fuel system problems from using Ethanol based fuels. I've had engines sit for 5 YEARS with leaded regular and Sta-Bil in the tank. They started just fine. There is no excuse for this. Only the one's consumers keep making for these manufacturers.
 

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For what Honda charges for their generators, they should have had Ethanol compatible engines decades ago. Cost is the biggest factor in owning that generator. It retails for over a dollar a watt. And you'll still have the exact same issues with Ethanol based fuels with it, that you will with generators that sell for 75% less, and put out twice the wattage.
The EU7000is is fuel injected, so less of an issue with Ethanol and related carburetor problems. I only use ethanol-free fuel in mine though, just to be safe.
 

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That's the problem. All of these units sit more than they run. Generators, chain saws, power blowers, hedge and string trimmers, name it. Unless they're used on a daily basis by professionals they will sit. This should NOT be a problem. But it is, and has been since the introduction of Ethanol in gasoline over 30 years ago. This is not a Shuttle Launch for these manufacturers to solve. They just don't care.

Go to any small engine repair shop and ask them what repairs they deal with the most. They'll all tell you it's fuel system problems from using Ethanol based fuels. I've had engines sit for 5 YEARS with leaded regular and Sta-Bil in the tank. They started just fine. There is no excuse for this. Only the one's consumers keep making for these manufacturers.
Well float bowl carbs are the biggest offender. Diaphragm carbs fair better since they don’t have a pool of fuel open to ambient air but it’s still a carb that can easily gum up from fuel that has already phase separated. The only effective measure is a complex system using high pressure fuel injection. Do you really want fuel injection on all of your small engines...

A best case scenario is the banning of enthanol which feels like a pipe dream. I understand your point and share a similar feeling, but there isn’t a more practical solution.
 

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we are lucky here in south Iowa
so far we can still get ethanol free gasoline at the pump.

the issue is the fuel not the gens or engines...
way too much trash in the fuel!
the local ethanol plant is one of my clients!

now if they made all of our little carbs out of stainless steel
they might survive!
for now I have switched to natural gas and propane for the long term storage fuels...
 

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What kind of trash are you seeing Paul? I flush the pump line by putting $5 in my truck before I fill my gas cans. I used to prefilter my gas when I fill up my small engines but didn’t see any debris. I use Amsoil Quickshot to address any possible ethanol issues too. Dutchy
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Was at the local equipment rental place today and asked they guy what they do - they have a LOT of equipment with small engines. Some of it sits. His comment was that the stuff that goes in and out a lot they don't worry about in the summer (lawn mowers and the like). But they use non-oxy fuel in pretty much everything. And they NEVER leave fuel in the tanks of equipment that doesn't get rented in the winter, or in winter equipment that doesn't get rented in the summer (apparently don't rent a lot of ice augers in July).
His comments about what the ethanol does to the fuel systems can't be repeated here accurately, but they were voluminous and profane. The NICEST thing he said was that leaving oxy fuel in any of their equipment for an extended period (his extended was a month), even with stabilizer, turns the stuff into garbage that clogs things, corrodes things, and makes the equipment unreliable.

Asked where they get the non-oxygenated fuel, and he pointed to Cenex down the block and said their 91 octane was non-oxy. He claimed it makes the equipment MUCH easier to start, and with a little Sta-Bil, the equipment can sit between rentals with no worries.

SO, now I know there IS a place that's close to me, and I'll use up the oxy fuel we currently have in the lawn mower since it gets used twice a week, and fill all the fuel containers with the 91 octane non-oxy stuff.
 

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It's a pretty big deal when your machine sits all year.
With all my OPE, I try to remember to start them all and run them at least once a quarter. Today it was the big Powermate generator and the Toro zero-turn mower; tomorrow will be the Honda snow blower and the Mantis tiller. Next weekend will be the Honda/Gardenway chipper and the two Honda mowers. The following weekend will be the Husqvarna chain saw and the two gas trimmers. Then on to the pressure washer and the outboards in late May...
 

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Gas still goes bad. Unless your running the carb out.
I clean carbs all the time from people who don't. If they are gravity fed, or have a primer and Don't SUCK to start, they are less likely to get fuel damage to the carb because they get run dry. End of story.

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Gas still goes bad.
If you run it every few months, it does not seem to be an issue. At least not for me, and I have a lot of small engines...
 
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gracie glad you are on the right path!
lol on the swear and color full words!
yea we like to keep all forum posts "g" rated like mayberry!

ethanol is bad on these little gens of all makes!
staible all of the time in the fuel.
and sea foam at the beginning of the season and end of the season.

that sea foam works good to keep the carb clean...

yes on the better grade of gasoline!
depending on the area of the country where you are...
for brands... we have BP here in Iowa that has the gold that is ethanol free..
and yes way also has a medium grade that is ethanol free.

from there the local drag strip has cam 2 and VP...
then there is Avation fuel at the airport.

also look in to a tri fuel system for the gen set..
then you have a choice of fuel!
propane and natural gas work well!
and then use the gasoline for when you are remote or do not have the other fuel choices...
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I had a flashback last night... I've had a champion 2000W generator for 10 or so years. It was ALWAYS very hard to start. I checked with the small engine shop in the area and they agreed and said they could clean things up and MAYBE make it a little better, but it was NEVER going to be quick and easy - and it FILLS the carb when you open the valve.
BUT, (that's not the flashback), I remembered last night that a couple years ago, when it got impossible, I went through the thing and pulled it apart. When I got the carb off, the bowl was full of strange, rusty-looking, deposits and corrosion. It actually looked like a boat with barnacles on the hull. Both jets were completely blocked with something that had hardened and didn't want to come out. So, I found a replacement carb on line and put it on. That got it working, and it worked for my next trip. then it sat. And 3 - 4 months later, no start. I could spray it with ether and it would pop and run for a second but not normal...
It's been sitting since.
I'd forgotten what the inside of that bowl looked like 'til I recalled it last night... I just never associated it with oxy gas.
 

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If you run it every few months, it does not seem to be an issue. At least not for me, and I have a lot of small engines...
That's what I do with ALL of my small engines. I think running fuel through the lines, carbs, jets, ect. helps regardless of how old the fuel is or isn't. Pure Ethanol will evaporate with little to no trace. It leaves very little residue. I can get non Ethanol fuel with no problem. Plus it's 92 Octane.

I think that, combined with running them at least once a month, is the key to eliminating issues. I also filter everything I put into a fuel tank. Those little Coleman filter funnels are good for this. Albeit they flow very slow. No good for a 8 gallon generator tank. Cheesecloth in a large funnel works well for larger applications.
 

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I'm not disciplined enough to periodically start all of my gasoline engines just to make sure they stay healthy. So, if I know they won't be run for a long time, I drain the tanks, run the engines dry, and drain the carbs. That has worked well through the years.

For gasoline generators, I store the emergency reserve gasoline supply in 5-gallon cans for instant availability when needed. When I need to fill my gasoline generators with the stored reserve fuel, it is accomplished with a 12VDC gasoline-rated fuel pump that has an in-line fuel filter to make sure no sediment gets into the engines. Due to the difficulty in getting non-ethanol fuel, I usually have 10% ethanol fuel with StaBil in the reserve cans and make sure I don't keep it over a year without running it through either the generator during storms or my cars so it isn't wasted. That has worked OK for me.

For diesel engines, the fuel going bad generally is not a problem as long as they don't sneak bio-diesel products into my supply chain. So far I've avoided that, and my diesels have been OK with longer-term fuel storage. That's good, because I cannot drain diesel engine fuel tanks since that would allow air getting into the fuel system, which is a big deal for diesels and causes a lot of trouble bleeding fuel injectors and pumps of air.
 

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And if your on here, I suspect you use ethonal free fuel. Correct?
I do not. E10 pump gas with Stabil and quarterly startups. No carburetor problems since I started that regimen. The strictly seasonal items like outboards & motorcycles do get their carbs run dry and cylinders fogged at the end of the season.
 
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