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Thread: Honda EU3000is Surges, only runs choke pulled mostly out, Carb Repair Help? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-13-2019 09:17 PM
HarryN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy491 View Post
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2761.pdf


Above is a link to the Data sheet for AMSOIL Quickshot. The fuel from today can contain Ethanol where in 1990 that wasn't a concern. The test data from the University of Nebraska is interesting. Too bad it didn't include AMSOIL or several other common brands. Dutchy
I was actually using 10% ethanol fuel in 1979 in IA in a car with a dodge slant 6. It worked just fine back then and I have no issue using it. The 2000 dodge mini van I have is actually rated for using up to E85. It is a bit weak on torque, but keeps going, so I drive it.

My suspicion is that the honda small engines have a part made from a copper alloy and that this is at least part of the problem. Copper alloys are well known for causing fuel system problems and reactions. That is a guess on my part, but the way the fuel polymerizes is what you would expect from this kind of issue.

EDIT

I thought about this some more. Perhaps there could have been problems with polymerization with 10% ethanol fuel, but I used about 2 - 4 tanks per month, so would not have really observed it.
12-13-2019 09:06 PM
HarryN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy491 View Post
Harry, canned fuel simply isn't an option for generators or many other small engines for that matter. Way way way too expensive. Although it works if money isn't an option. Have you ever looked closely at the carb on your Honda mower to check if there is a fuel drain? All my Honda engines have some sort of drain and I religiously drain the carb after use (close the fuel spigot and run the engine until it stalls out then drain) unless I plan to use that particular piece of equipment again in the next day or two. Every time I drain a carb there is usually one to two tablespoons of fuel that dribbles out. That is the cause of many carb issues, especially if ethanol fuel is used. My solution is to buy ethanol free high octane fuel, but first put $5 in my truck before filling my jerry can, to flush out the fuel grade that the previous customer bought. If you pull in after a biker they usually use Super in their bikes so the pump is already purged. I put the appropriate amount of AMSOIL Quickshot in the jerry can prior to filling with fuel so that it is all properly mixed. At the beginning of the month I pour the remainder of that can into my truck and refill the jerry can with fresh gas and Quickshot etc. This has worked for me for years. Find AMSOIL Quickshot and use it like I have, as stated above, and get back to us. It is important to be diligent or you will get bit! Harry and others have been there and me too, and never again if I can help it!! Dutchy
I agree with you.

At the time of my fuel / mower challenges, ethanol was not common in CA gasoline. They used a different oxygenate, but I don't know what it is.

In some seasons, we are mowing the yard 2x per week - it is just a really small yard. Occasionally my son mows the yard, and randomly my wife will if I am on a business trip. Neither will drain the carb so the fuel system has to be able to work on its own.

I only ever use "super" / high octane gasoline, so that isn't a factor. I even went to some bother to use a specialty race car fuel station to buy gasoline.

I just gave up on generators except for really rare situations and bought one of these 1x3s. Essentially it uses solar most of the time to run the garage fridge and uses the grid as needed if for some reason the sun cannot keep up. The fridge is all I really care about, but it can run other stuff as well.

https://wirlnet-inc.square.site

If I could purchase gasoline that was reasonably stable, I would go the generator route, but that just isn't reality in California.

I didn't try the amsoil product that you suggested. I probably won't because I am not willing to risk another $120 mower repair bill vs just buying some canned gas. It might make sense for others though.
12-13-2019 06:02 PM
Dutchy491 Harry, canned fuel simply isn't an option for generators or many other small engines for that matter. Way way way too expensive. Although it works if money isn't an option. Have you ever looked closely at the carb on your Honda mower to check if there is a fuel drain? All my Honda engines have some sort of drain and I religiously drain the carb after use (close the fuel spigot and run the engine until it stalls out then drain) unless I plan to use that particular piece of equipment again in the next day or two. Every time I drain a carb there is usually one to two tablespoons of fuel that dribbles out. That is the cause of many carb issues, especially if ethanol fuel is used. My solution is to buy ethanol free high octane fuel, but first put $5 in my truck before filling my jerry can, to flush out the fuel grade that the previous customer bought. If you pull in after a biker they usually use Super in their bikes so the pump is already purged. I put the appropriate amount of AMSOIL Quickshot in the jerry can prior to filling with fuel so that it is all properly mixed. At the beginning of the month I pour the remainder of that can into my truck and refill the jerry can with fresh gas and Quickshot etc. This has worked for me for years. Find AMSOIL Quickshot and use it like I have, as stated above, and get back to us. It is important to be diligent or you will get bit! Harry and others have been there and me too, and never again if I can help it!! Dutchy
12-13-2019 02:33 PM
HarryN Your experience is very similar to what I have experienced with honda lawnmowers with modern gasoline.

Modern gasoline, especially in areas with oxygenate additives (example CA) is not nearly as stable as gasoline sold in other areas. The oxygenates help slightly reduced exhaust pollutants in fuel injected engines, so they are widely mandated use. What they don't tell you is that within 30 days, they start to polymerize and at 90 days, they are polymerizing substantially.

In my honda mower, the symptoms were very similar. I was doing the same adjustments.

I was rebuilding the carb 1 - 2 x per year. Sometimes I would do it, sometimes I paid to have it done. (keep in mind we mow the yard 8 months a year here) The reason that professional mower companies don't usually see the problem, is that they go through many gallons per week in a mower. My yard is small, so that little tank would last 2 - 4 weeks.

I tried every fuel stabilizer out there and even used more than is suggested multiple times. None of them work on this situation.

I suspect that there is an alloy in the honda fuel system that actually catalyzes this reaction, but it doesn't matter.

Eventually I listened to the lawn mower shop and out of desperation, bought one of those "cans" of gasoline that doesn't have oxygenates in it. The problem disappeared and now that is all I use in that mower. I have not had to do anything to that mower since, other than an oil change.

After that, I also switched out the fuel (2 cycle) in my chain saw.

Home depot and lowes sell these canned fuels locally now, so the price is less - still a lot more than a gas station, but overall still cheaper for me than rebuilds on that mower.

The odds of canned fuel solving your problem, IMHO, are high. Probably you won't like putting $15/ gallon gasoline in a generator, but sometimes there aren't many options.

This is frankly why I bought the solar generator setup for my garage fridge. There just isn't any way to store viable amounts gasoline for a power outage.
12-12-2019 05:20 PM
Dutchy491 https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2761.pdf


Above is a link to the Data sheet for AMSOIL Quickshot. The fuel from today can contain Ethanol where in 1990 that wasn't a concern. The test data from the University of Nebraska is interesting. Too bad it didn't include AMSOIL or several other common brands. Dutchy
12-12-2019 01:02 PM
Melson Some of my work responsibility was field support on power equipment for Verizon. Mostly that would be turbine and diesel gensets, but also some smaller gasoline units.
Our experience was that fuel stabilizers either didn't work or, well, I'll just say that basically they didn't do as advertised. Believe me, we would have promoted those products if they had.
I know this will be blasphemy to many, and maybe that stuff does help slow things down a bit. Maybe. But I can't even think of how many Onan carbs I rebuilt. Thank goodness, around 1990 we got funding to transition those smaller C. O.'s to Vertipac diesels. Which were - oh, brother! - horrible, but not because of bad fuel.
I guess my feelings are that if you think stabile et all, work then you must be doing something right.
12-12-2019 02:40 AM
sportplumber This study is interesting as most of the products like Stabil don't seem to work. Amsoil not in there and a fine company but download the full report to see the results.

https://cropwatch.unl.edu/ethanol-an...oval-additives

University of Nebraska
12-11-2019 08:52 PM
kipsy I have a five-year-old EB 4000 Honda generator, this fall it has surged. I started yesterday and needed choke to start, the auto choke wasn’t helping. I found that if I remove the air filter it would no longer surge or very little if any. I did connect a circular saw to test And found that it did not consistently stay at the same RPM and could tell that the saw speed was changing a very little not sure if this is normal.Can anyone give me any advice as to what to check next
12-11-2019 12:08 PM
Dutchy491 I also have the newest Honda 2200 Inverter and I like that it has the ability for me to turn the fuel off so that I can run the unit until the carb is empty. Unlike the older 2000 units that you had to manually drain the carb. That being said, I have used AMSOIL Quickshot for years in all my small engines including my Yamaha ATV and Harleys and I like it alot. It seems to keep my stuff running great and provides a bit of stabilizer as well. According to AMSOIL about 6 months I think. focuses on three major fuel-related issues plaguing these applications: ethanol, water and dirty pump gas Here's a link. https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...-EA/?zo=331384 I can't find it locally so I usually order online and I get it in a couple of days. Works for me. Dutchy
12-08-2019 10:35 AM
Melson I have the same unit, wasn't aware of the extra screen filter in the shutoff valve. Thanks for that heads-up.
While both my previous eu2200 and this eu3000is have been totally reliable I have found that Honda, in its due diligence mindset, can over-engineer and/or produce parts with such a high degree of fine tolerance that, conversely, there's a low tolerance for user neglect or lack of maintenance. The fuel system seems a prime offender.
For example, the main jet in the carb of the 2200 genset is such small diameter that I discovered no amount of gas treatment would stop it from clogging if I left unused for as little as one month. Not kidding.
I have learned to shut the fuel valve off and then run these Hondas until out of gas, which has worked for to keep the carbs ready for use after months of inactivity.
I know this doesn't help your issue one bit. I do hope you continue to post here your continuing saga.
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