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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Old Kohler 60kw Help

Hi again, new thread for a different problem.

https://youtu.be/SuQc2gmoDXs

I am wondering something. Is it necessary to have the throttle on the fuel injection open full to get proper voltage?

Is there something wrong with the voltage regulation? Is there something wrong with the Exciter?

Is the injection pump the wrong one for this machine or is it just not setup properly?

Previous owner replaced it but never used it after for any length of time.

Shouldn't the generator auto regulate this?

Am I missing something entirely? Probably....

There is a decent amount of smoke coming from the exhaust, white smoke. Is the timing for the injection wrong?

Thanks
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 06:17 PM
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I watched your video. Based on what I saw my original suggestion still stands:
>. Set the throttle for 60hz, which is 1800 rpm. You can't do anything else until the engine is running at its rated speed.
>. Use the panel mounted freq meter (upper right) to indicate when it's at 60 hz - the meter will rise and center on "60"
>. Once at proper speed lock the throttle down, don't play with it further.

These are the first steps I would do. IF you follow these steps then you can check for voltage. And possibly move on to other questions.
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Last edited by Melson; 02-08-2020 at 06:51 PM.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-08-2020, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you melson, that cleared a few things up right away in my head.

I kept an eye on the Hz meter while adjusting the throttle. Got it to a steady 60hz. Voltages are fine.

I guess all that is left is to find a wiring diagram to wire to Single Phase, and maybe try to reduce the white smoke from the exhaust or at least find a way to mask it.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-09-2020, 02:55 PM
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OK hopefully things are starting to make sense - 1 thing at a time is how you do it.
Questions: May I ask why you want to wire fully single phase? Do you know how many KW your expected load is?
Reason I ask is because, since that is a 3 ph alternator you already have three, single phase-to-neutral circuits that will power multiple loads.

Last edited by Melson; 02-10-2020 at 07:15 AM.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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Will be using around 35kw.

I have it wired into a single phase panel right now.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-11-2020, 06:16 PM
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Each leg of the three phases will theoretically carry 20kw to neutral. In practice this could be a bit conservative.

Personally, I'd put some thought into splitting your loads so that half go onto one phase, the rest onto another.
This would preserve the integrity and rating of the genset, make it easier to sell, easier to troubleshoot, easier to repair.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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So a 3 phase panel to manage the loads?

I was hoping to avoid rewiring the panel and having to buy a new one.

Is it that difficult to rewire to single phase on this machine, the wiring is very easy to access. I just wish I knew which wires to put where.....

Any ideas?

Thanks again
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 06:57 AM
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No, not a 3-ph panel.
It might help to visualize that each phase of the 3 phases as a single, independent leg capable of powering XX amps (to the neutral leg)

Each leg of the three is capable of running single ph loads.

Thus, if you can find a way to split your ac breaker panel then you could use two of the three phases in that manner.

However, (there's always a "but", right?)...
This is a three phase set and is meant to power loads between phases.
This means that the neutral wire is not meant to handle all the power that the alternator can produce, and, in fact, is not sized from the factory to do so.
At some point you risk overloading that single neutral conductor.
Also, by using the generator in such a manner -were you to heavily load two of the three legs (to the neutral wire)- then you are unbalancing the alternator.
That is a somewhat lesser, secondary issue. One you can get away with as long as you understand it and the combined loads don't overload that neutral wire's ampacity.

For example, a severely unbalanced generator can exhibit heating of the alternator and 'chugging' or oscillation of the prime mover. That would be a worse case scenario.
In your case it doesn't sound like this would be an issue, but you need to understand it.

And, so, given all of the above, this is where the "but" comes into play. Because, as you see this isn't a normal operating scenario and, although it's definitely doable, there are some considerations that make doing so a bit more complicated.

Because of the above I very *highly*recommend that you find the resources to hire a qualified expert, either a local electrician who knows generators, or, you could call Kohler, who would find a local certified contractor for you to hire.
Another contractor you could contact is Alturdyne in California. They employ qualified generator techs around the country and would be glad to send one to your location.

None of that is cheap, but you be a wise man to do this. It would also get you going quickest and, most importantly, safely.

It's up to you how you proceed from here. Just realize that in the real world of life, the world we all live in, you pretty much get what you pay for - and... what you don't pay for.
In the long-term scheme it's well worth considering getting some outside, hands-on, help. IMHO.

Good luck!

Last edited by Melson; 02-12-2020 at 07:25 AM.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 09:15 AM
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Garage
grin or just sell what you have for an industrial setup like it was made for and buy a single phase generator.
right tool for the job comes to mind..

yea I get having more power to run everything...
for me it was smaller honda inverter gens that could be parallel and just stack more gens when I need more.

the cool thing on any setup is you can have multi panels on your property.
and multi inlet switch overs as well.

what comes to mind is a shop service and a house service as separated panels.
you may not need power to the shop all of the time.
so a separated system would work better to conserve fuel.

winter is it's own issue and brings up heating questions.
Insulate the heck out of the buildings for both summer and winter.

I guess for me the super large gen sets never did it for me..
they were just too hungry too feed!!

yea a good deal on a wrong for your setup generator can get expensive...
but you can use it as a stepping stone to the system you really need.

on to your questions;
white smoke could be;
low cetane in the diesel use power service in the white bottle.it also helps with anti gel.

low fuel pressure on the fuel low pressure lift pump to the main injection pump

low injection pressure easy to test with a special 40k psi gauge for injection.

cold fuel (do a fuel tank heater or coolant to diesel plate heater like on new trucks)
plugged injector,

head gasket, test with a leak down tester made for checking diesel engines.
also check to see if the radiator antifreeze is dancing while the radiator cap is off when running.
this works on excessive large leaks. also if you are using antifreeze or have water in the oil it can be the head gasket.

speed control on your large frame gen set.
most of these large frame generators are single speed
and only have a throttle to keep the generator right on the set rpm as stated on the tag.
the governor sets the cadence required for the 60 hz.
high and low is set with small load for low setting and full rated load for the max throttle setting.

the honda inverter generators are a different setup.
the hz as well as voltage is done by both engine rpm and electrical cadence (hz).
it is all done a set inside the inverter unit.
they can vary the speed down to a min slower rpm to save fuel.
hence the term "eco mode"
you can also select to keep them in full speed mode for when you are running larger loads like BIG saws that have super large in rush.
but they still have room on the throttle to give it more gas to hold the high speed rpm up to the rated output.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Paul in Iowa
see my Honda generator Group at https://hondagenerator.groups.io/g/main

Last edited by iowagold; 02-12-2020 at 09:39 AM.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 09:26 AM
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I picked up on the light grey smoke from the exhaust.
In my working years I owned over 20 diesels and I am not a certified diesel mechanic but I have been around a few.
Since the previous owner changed the injector pump it may be possible that he managed to get trash in one of the injectors or actually got it slightly out of time.
Trash in an injector will cause the spray to be a pisser which will cause a bad firing.
For sure if the diesel pump has no slotted adjustment on the mount then timing is not in question.
Taking some time to put a wrench on each injector one at a time and loosen the fuel line nut while running, then it is possible that you may find the culprit for the smoke.
Be reminded to only loosen the nut, not remove it.
You can buy one injector and swap out each injector with the new one until you find the bad boy.
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Last edited by ToolLover; 02-12-2020 at 10:34 AM.
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