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-   -   Honda EU3000is Surges, only runs choke pulled mostly out, Carb Repair Help? (https://www.powerequipmentforum.com/forum/9-generator-forum/22480-honda-eu3000is-surges-only-runs-choke-pulled-mostly-out-carb-repair-help.html)

xyobgyn 12-01-2019 12:46 AM

Honda EU3000is Surges, only runs choke pulled mostly out, Carb Repair Help?
 
I have an old EU3000is.

I tried to start it this weekend, in anticipation of winter, and possible use. It barely started, and really only liked choke pulled all the way out. I had to run the choke back and forth a bit to keep it running at all. To me, it seemed like a clogged up carb.

I'm handy, but not experienced.

I took the carb out, and was horrified how clogged up the main jet and nozzle were (parts 11,28)
I cleaned out the pilot jet (parts 29) New O ring for that.
New O ring for bowl, as well as the drain screw.

I cleaned off a ton of varnish and debris from the float and bowl.

I was not sure how to get part #5 out, also labeled a pilot screw, but I went back and forth on it, and sprayed a ton of brake cleaner through the area where it enters the carb. I was careful to open up all the passages I could see into the carb, including some really tiny ones in the wall.

I put on a new fuel hose, as that was brittle.
I put in a fresh plug, the old one looked fine. I drained all the oil, and put in fresh 10W-30 Mobil One.

I got new gaskets, the only issue there I ran into, I can not really explain, but don't think its the problem. Upon reassembly, the thick metal gasket spacer with rubber coating spaced the choke plate to far away, so there was binding, and the choke would not move. I doubled up a pair of paper gaskets in that spot, and that relieved the choke movement. No passages blocked there.

I bought a small quantity of ethanol free gas from Menards, just to start it up, and store it. The tank was completely empty of the old gas.

It STILL only runs well with choke pulled out all the way.

There seems to be a strainer in the bottom of the tank. Leads right to the valve on/off for fuel.

When I shut off the fuel, and let it run dry, there is still some gas in the bowl when I open the drain screw to the line, and drain it.

Is it possible the flow is THAT bad through the intake strainer? Does that item function like a fuel filter that I should swap it out?

(I guess I could test this by bypassing the fuel tank, with a longer hose, and just feed off a funnel and nipple to the carb direct.... )

There is no conventional inline fuel filter as I've seen on other small engines.

I'm comfortable taking it all apart again, and looking at the carb after running it, I suppose some debris may have gotten into it, but it really doesn't seem to run THAT much better than before the cleaning, despite the horrific amount of varnish and plugged holes in the carb.

Looking for suggestions, other than bypass the fuel tank, and go direct. I'll give that a try, and report back...

I bought a fair amount of parts for this, including a nice carb cleaning kit with probes/cleaners of all sizes. I'm not against buying a whole fresh carb, but it seems a shame at this point.

Not sure how I would test to be certain that the electronic throttle is functioning right. I read of one situation where someone pinched wires on that harness and lost function. I guess I could take a meter to the plug and try to check continuity, but it seems unlikely, I was pretty careful.

Open to suggestions.... thanks in advance.

xyobgyn 12-01-2019 10:45 AM

Well, I answered my own question.

Ran a foot or two of fuel line off a funnel hanging over the engine, direct to the carb. Runs perfectly.

The “screen” as Honda calls the part poking up into the bottom of the tank, directly attached to fuel manual valve, must be plugged badly..

I wish there was a more obvious inline fuel filter, I would have seen and replaced it preventatively. But at least I didn’t just buy a new carb, only to find that wasn’t the problem after all.

How many times do we have to repeat the mantra? Fuel, Air, Spark.

xyobgyn 12-01-2019 05:17 PM

Honda Parts
 
Well,

The fuel valve does incorporate a small filter in it, and there is a pencil like tall screen/filter that protrudes into the tank.

All these parts were junked up on mine. I tried to delicately remove the assembly, but it crumpled, and the o-rings were all toast.

The added up cost for new O-rings and filters was about the same as a whole new assembly complete, and frankly, it was hard to clean out the valve nicely.

So.... I bit the bullet and bought a new assembly. Give credit where due, the Generators as built and let out from the factory are very reliable. So, I'll restore this to factory configuration.

I think the cheaper way to fix this would be take it apart as I did, remove the tall thin inner tank filter, remove the small round filter in the valve, just tear out the filter section. Put in new O-rings, and install a short aftermarket fuel filter in the line between the tank and carb. There is room, and then service would be easier. If there is a next time, I'll do that rather than paying the price of new parts.... I'll splurge once as this is still a reasonable price to pay for DIY, as well as a bit of a sting to take better care in the future.

Predator 12-07-2019 12:31 AM

So did that get it running properly?
I have a nagging feeling you're going to end up needed a new carb. You'll be VERY lucky if you don't.



Carbs tend to disintegrate from the corrosives left behind when gasoline absorbs water from the air.
Turns them to aluminum oxide powder.

xyobgyn 12-07-2019 01:48 AM

Predator,

Well, I have mixed results, and I ran out of time last night, and had no time today to sort it out completely.

My memory from last weekend is that when I hung a gravity fed fuel source direct to the carb, bypassing the EU3000 tank, filters, fuel valve etc... that the generator ran beautifully, distinctly differently than when fed by gravity from the fuel tank as it should be. Hope to have linked a photo from FB. Not sure if that violates policies.

Now I wonder if I'm losing my mind. (Wouldn't be the first time. While I'm board certified in delivering babies and gyn issues, small gas engines are not my area of expertise.)

I put in a brand new fuel valve, with its built in fuel filter, and a new in tank screen that all comes together in a single parts bag from Honda. You can buy the individual parts (filter, valve, O rings, strainer) separately too.

Im still having some fuel starvation issues, but to be sure, (in retrospect) I poured in very, very little of the ethanol free gas in my test, it may not have been enough to run smoothly.

At the cost of the ethanol free gas at Menards/Home Depot, I'm sorely tempted to follow the DIY route, and make my own. This weekend, I'll fill the tank more fully, and see if I can finally run with the choke in as it should be. I did take off the spark arrestor, and it wasn't bad, just on the off hand chance it was a contributing factor.... Its about all thats left to adjust aside from valve clearance, and inspecting for carbon build up with a scope.

Incidentally, there is a 5 amp fuse for the starter on the side of the genset once the front cover is off. Mine was blown, which was sweet to find as a fresh battery to replace the one that wouldn't take a charge didn't solve the problem until I checked that fuse. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Melson 12-08-2019 10:35 AM

I have the same unit, wasn't aware of the extra screen filter in the shutoff valve. Thanks for that heads-up.
While both my previous eu2200 and this eu3000is have been totally reliable I have found that Honda, in its due diligence mindset, can over-engineer and/or produce parts with such a high degree of fine tolerance that, conversely, there's a low tolerance for user neglect or lack of maintenance. The fuel system seems a prime offender.
For example, the main jet in the carb of the 2200 genset is such small diameter that I discovered no amount of gas treatment would stop it from clogging if I left unused for as little as one month. Not kidding.
I have learned to shut the fuel valve off and then run these Hondas until out of gas, which has worked for to keep the carbs ready for use after months of inactivity.
I know this doesn't help your issue one bit. I do hope you continue to post here your continuing saga.

Dutchy491 12-11-2019 12:08 PM

I also have the newest Honda 2200 Inverter and I like that it has the ability for me to turn the fuel off so that I can run the unit until the carb is empty. Unlike the older 2000 units that you had to manually drain the carb. That being said, I have used AMSOIL Quickshot for years in all my small engines including my Yamaha ATV and Harleys and I like it alot. It seems to keep my stuff running great and provides a bit of stabilizer as well. According to AMSOIL about 6 months I think. focuses on three major fuel-related issues plaguing these applications: ethanol, water and dirty pump gas Here's a link. https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...-EA/?zo=331384 I can't find it locally so I usually order online and I get it in a couple of days. Works for me. Dutchy

kipsy 12-11-2019 08:52 PM

I have a five-year-old EB 4000 Honda generator, this fall it has surged. I started yesterday and needed choke to start, the auto choke wasnít helping. I found that if I remove the air filter it would no longer surge or very little if any. I did connect a circular saw to test And found that it did not consistently stay at the same RPM and could tell that the saw speed was changing a very little not sure if this is normal.Can anyone give me any advice as to what to check next

sportplumber 12-12-2019 02:40 AM

This study is interesting as most of the products like Stabil don't seem to work. Amsoil not in there and a fine company but download the full report to see the results.

https://cropwatch.unl.edu/ethanol-an...oval-additives

University of Nebraska

Melson 12-12-2019 01:02 PM

Some of my work responsibility was field support on power equipment for Verizon. Mostly that would be turbine and diesel gensets, but also some smaller gasoline units.
Our experience was that fuel stabilizers either didn't work or, well, I'll just say that basically they didn't do as advertised. Believe me, we would have promoted those products if they had.
I know this will be blasphemy to many, and maybe that stuff does help slow things down a bit. Maybe. But I can't even think of how many Onan carbs I rebuilt. Thank goodness, around 1990 we got funding to transition those smaller C. O.'s to Vertipac diesels. Which were - oh, brother! - horrible, but not because of bad fuel.
I guess my feelings are that if you think stabile et all, work then you must be doing something right.


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